Hello all! Shirley posted a question in our forum which, I feel, is worthy of being submitted as a discussion. Between meds, which sometimes work, and surgery, which I have heard rarely works (second opinion coming for me on this in March) for ATN symptoms, I have always been curious about any alternatives, facial injections, being one of them. Does anyone know more about this? Kudos to Shirley for, what I think, is a very good question.
Question? Have you ever had facial injections. And if so What Dr gave you these and ,did they inject these where they wanted or did they go by the branches of facial nerve's. Or have they ever injected where you asked.
There are several different types of facial "injections", some of which are nerve blocks. A poster to the TNA Connect forums recently provided the following link that describes differences between these types.
Shirley, I have had multiple face injections. I had an almost insane level of pain at the dentist, so he injected lidocaine from the inside of my mouth, to the lower part of the trigeminal nerve. It did help, got me home and to sleep, but he has been scared to ever do it again and I can't get any other dentist to do it.
I also had lidocaine injected externally. I think it only did as much good as the acupuncture I had previously. I don't think the Dr. knew exactly where to inject. Acupuncture was great. The Dr. even taught me how to do it to myself because my insurance didn't pay for many treatments. After about a year, that area developed scar tissue so the acupuncture didn't work well anymore, but after many years of stopping, I am willing to try again and see if it helps.
I had a steroid injection, it was useless. I think the Dr. suspected I had swelling in the TMJ. I didn't. It's nerve pain. I can't even find a Dr. or dentist willing to inject that nerve anymore.
A doc used to shoot me up in my TMJ joint too when my TN was unilateral, during my nightmare of being misdiagnosed with TMJ between the years of 2003 and 2009. I think maybe in addition to the fact that I was only 31 when the first symptoms reared their ugly head, I know I was thought of as a nervous woman, with a stressful job, a husband with a mental problem (my late husband, who was bipolar - today would have been our 16th anniversary), and two young children. Perhaps upping my dosage of Diazepam and trying different anti-depressants would make me forget pain which was becoming ever more excruciating as time passed.
I didn't mention that I had injections for TMJ joint, earlier. Needless to say, they didn't work for me, either.
I was missing so many of the symptoms which torment TMJ patients too. However, if you take ATN as described by most any source, symptom by symptom, they accurately describe my condition to the letter. They always have, whether unilateral, as I began, or bilateral, as I have become, and what I have always described to doctors through the years.
Not to make a pun, Sheila, but when mentioning you were given TMJ treatments, it "hit a nerve", because I wonder how many out there with a current diagnoses of TMJ are actually ATN sufferers. Why this is important is because the course of treatment for a TMJ patient differs from the course of treatment for ATN. I have been told that, if caught sooner, the typical front-line medications used to treat TN may have worked better for me, I may not have gone bilateral, chronic pain left untreated may lead to other complications.
Sheila said:
Shirley, I have had multiple face injections. I had an almost insane level of pain at the dentist, so he injected lidocaine from the inside of my mouth, to the lower part of the trigeminal nerve. It did help, got me home and to sleep, but he has been scared to ever do it again and I can't get any other dentist to do it.
I also had lidocaine injected externally. I think it only did as much good as the acupuncture I had previously. I don't think the Dr. knew exactly where to inject. Acupuncture was great. The Dr. even taught me how to do it to myself because my insurance didn't pay for many treatments. After about a year, that area developed scar tissue so the acupuncture didn't work well anymore, but after many years of stopping, I am willing to try again and see if it helps.
I had a steroid injection, it was useless. I think the Dr. suspected I had swelling in the TMJ. I didn't. It's nerve pain. I can't even find a Dr. or dentist willing to inject that nerve anymore.
There are several different types of facial "injections", some of which are nerve blocks. A poster to the TNA Connect forums recently provided the following link that describes differences between these types.
Thank you so much Red,for this information I will read and go back and read again for more info on trying to find relief, thank you for going that extra to help other’s.
Richard A. “Red” Lawhern said:
Shirley and Stef:
There are several different types of facial "injections", some of which are nerve blocks. A poster to the TNA Connect forums recently provided the following link that describes differences between these types.
Sheila Thanks so much for Information I Find it interesting Dentist tried to help with injection’s in side of your mouth. What do you think caused your sar tissue in that area, Did not know we could build scar tissue from Injection’s or acupinture. In that area. Thank you for your help Interesting. Stef thank you also Interesting they were treating you for TMJ first when I think TMJ would not be like treating some one with ATN, at all By the way hope your daughter had a wonerful 8th Birthday.
Acupuncture caused the scar tissue. Any shots or needles or surgery or any invasive procedure will cauuse scar tissue. Canada won’t even pay for MVD surgery because they have found that 2 years later, scar tissue forms and makes the pain worse.
Shirley Warren said:
Sheila Thanks so much for Information I Find it interesting Dentist tried to help with injection's in side of your mouth. What do you think caused your sar tissue in that area, Did not know we could build scar tissue from Injection's or acupinture. In that area. Thank you for your help Interesting. Stef thank you also Interesting they were treating you for TMJ first when I think TMJ would not be like treating some one with ATN, at all By the way hope your daughter had a wonerful 8th Birthday.
Thank you, Shirley! She did! We had a really good time and I was blessed with a better than average day, pain wise, that day. I also learned something from Sheila's experience with scar tissue after Acupuncture. Yes, we are fortunate to have Red in our group. He is of great help. If injections would bring you some relief, I hope you may have a better idea of which, if any of your options to inquire about for the maximum benefit.
I hope you have good luck with this, for sure.
Update of Gloria: Spoke with her yesterday afternoon. She is still recovering, but is joking around. She told me to tell you guys she no longer feels like now, she has only been hit by a Mac Truck, not a semi! My guy just told me that Mac is a brand of semi's. Well, but I got what she meant. :)
Shirley Warren said:
Sheila Thanks so much for Information I Find it interesting Dentist tried to help with injection's in side of your mouth. What do you think caused your sar tissue in that area, Did not know we could build scar tissue from Injection's or acupinture. In that area. Thank you for your help Interesting. Stef thank you also Interesting they were treating you for TMJ first when I think TMJ would not be like treating some one with ATN, at all By the way hope your daughter had a wonerful 8th Birthday.
Sheila, I would very much like to see a documented source for the policy of the Canadian health system that you quote below. I've been researching this field for 15 years, and in all candor, I've never seen anything remotely that pessimistic. Remission rates for MVD are generally quoted as about 90%-plus immediately after surgery and in the 50-70% range for over ten years later -- for classic (Type I) TN. Rates are less often quoted for Type 2 TN, but they are still not low enough to match up with the two year criterion you've suggested.
Regards and best,
Red
Sheila said:
Acupuncture caused the scar tissue. Any shots or needles or surgery or any invasive procedure will cauuse scar tissue. Canada won't even pay for MVD surgery because they have found that 2 years later, scar tissue forms and makes the pain worse.
Shirley Warren said:
Sheila Thanks so much for Information I Find it interesting Dentist tried to help with injection's in side of your mouth. What do you think caused your sar tissue in that area, Did not know we could build scar tissue from Injection's or acupinture. In that area. Thank you for your help Interesting. Stef thank you also Interesting they were treating you for TMJ first when I think TMJ would not be like treating some one with ATN, at all By the way hope your daughter had a wonerful 8th Birthday.
May I say that if you are looking at alternatives to injections and and full on surgery you may consider CRYOSURGERY. Not permanent and a little brutal but as we have unrelenting agony you can get respite from this procedure,i have had it five times in 3 years.this time its lasting since Nov and i have no pain. I have numbness on my bottom lip and a little on the tongue but NO PAIN,i can live again. MVD on Monday for something more permanent.
I believe Cryosurgery involves freezing, right? Could you describe this a little more in depth? What is involved? How long does it take? Is there pain? I will try to find time to look up some info regarding this later. I have been feeling badly lately and have not had time, but I have been meaning to look this up. If you have a moment, could you tell us a little more?
Thanks,
Stef
steve pardoe said:
May I say that if you are looking at alternatives to injections and and full on surgery you may consider CRYOSURGERY. Not permanent and a little brutal but as we have unrelenting agony you can get respite from this procedure,,i have had it five times in 3 years.this time its lasting since Nov and i have no pain. I have numbness on my bottom lip and a little on the tongue but NO PAIN,,,i can live again. MVD on Monday for something more permanent.