Help!

I think I found the link that you sent me but honestly it is beyond my comprehension. When I am reading something difficult the words just become a blur of ink and I just fade out. Does anyone else find this from tegretol?

collette said:

I remember you sending a video that I could not watch (squeamish). Sorry sometimes I look back at discussions that I have been in and I cannot even remember them. My mind is not what it normally is. I will try to have a look. Thanks Cleo.



Cleo said:

i sent you a couple of helpful links on that somewhere...

Lynda,

Your words brought tears to my eyes and gave me such strength. I read it right before going to my general practitioner so it was just what I needed to hear. I was able to go and tell her what I liked and what I did not like about my neuro appt without crumbling apart -- so thank you my friend! She was surprised to hear that he made the comment about being too young to have TN. She thinks I have TN and was happy to hear that he ordered another MRI but with contrast. I think I will just have to be patient and help educate him once he gets to know me -- he is not arrogant or condescending. I think it will all work out and I will just have to remember that we need to help each other no matter what our specialty is.

Hugs:)



LyndaS said:

Good morning, Collette—

Thanks for your kind words, fellow super-warrior :D In addition to the one day at a time thing, sometimes when the pain is super bad, one hour at a time works, or one minute at a time. I use the birth training for breathing and focusing on other things to help with the pain. God knows that at it's worst level, it's as high as second stage labor! When you're pushing your sweet baby out into a new world, different from what they've come to know in the womb! Docs get this analogy, but people who don't know this level of pain may NEVER, EVER know what you're talking about. They have no way of knowing, so I just talk about other things with these people.

The sad fact with my neurologist is that he had/has several TN patients. He was very good at dx, but the follow through on the tegretol blood tests is something where he dropped the ball. Here in my neighborhood, we have few neurologist to choose from as well, but we can go north or south to find many. OHSU is pretty close, it's where Dr. Burchiel works, who is on the board at the TNA site and has helped many people with this problem by the MVD practice of putting a teflon disc between the nerve and offending artery (usually not shown in the MRI!!). I chose Dr. Carson at Johns Hopkins for many reasons. Mostly because he uses muscle from the scalp to painstakingly wrap around the nerve to push the offending artery up off the nerve. He is one of the most caring doctors I have ever met. He has a movie out based on his book, Gifted Hands. Cuba Gooding, Jr. is the actor who plays Dr. Carson.The movie is great, the book is better! He has other books I checked out at the library. He is so down to earth in his writing, you forget he is a world renown pediatric neurosurgeon!

I don't go to the neurologist anymore because the Gamma Knife surgeries left me with a majorly damaged nerve that grew back 2x, and pains me greatly. Plus, on top of all the burning pain, the painful numbness that waxes and wanes is considered anesthesia dolorosa…a road the totally bites, for sure! (Did I just say that out loud?? :D)

My PCP is one that studies up on things in the medical field that he is not fully schooled on…he did his research himself and with each new year, he is more and more encouraging and knowledgeable about this TN problem AND how it effects my sweet hubby :-) Last I saw this PCP, I was concerned that over time (it's been 10 years now), my body would completely break down due to the meds that are needed to keep the pain at bay. His response was epic…he said that if I managed well so far, I should be able to manage these chemicals throughout my lifetime. He did take a huge weight of stress off of my shoulders with this response.

It's so important to find a doc you like, Collette. And, one that is up to par on TN. Is Seattle too far for you to travel to see one of the specialists up there? I understand there are a few that know a lot about this disease. I'm not sure if your insurance carries over to the US, or if you can get an insurance here that can cover you pretty inexpensively, but it may be worth a try? Some people qualify for free care because this disease is so horrid!

Know that it took a good 5 years to finally get this TN monster to a place where meds would control it. Two Gamma Knife Surgeries and one MVD, add 5 years to the mix and I have found relief. The sad fact is that these meds could loose their ability to tend to the pain on my face and scalp. I don't know. I do know that the strategy to rotate more than 1/2 of them, I am kind of tricking my body into NOT getting used to any one med. Nothing is more discouraging than to have your meds fail. Then you go back to step one on the drawing board! Horrible, horrible, horrible…BUT, it is the face of TN and we need to work toward accepting the cards that are dealt (not to be harsh, my friend). BUT, with acceptance in one hand, we can take HOPE in the other and believe that God will one day provide either a remission for us, or the proper med to treat our personal case. He knows our pain, this is not a surprise to Him. It's Him, Collette, that I trust for the right treatments, not the docs. I completely trust Him, and value the docs He opens the door for me to see. I do my best to work with the docs, as we really are a team to battle the TN symptoms.

If you'd like to msg me, please do. I'm not always on the site, but try to check in regularly. It's people like you that keep me on this site, Collette. Your strength and tenacity is amazing and is something others can glean from. Don't cut yourself short on the fact that others may shrink at this disease, yet YOU DO NOT SHRINK. You're open, honest and that is so refreshing! I'm just so sorry that we met because of this pain, I wish it were under different circumstances :-), but am so glad to call you friend!

Sincerely,

LyndaS



collette said:

LyndaS -- you are a super warrior. I have read many of your responses to people and I am on this forum because of people like you.

I am getting my blood work checked periodically so that is good.

I like what you said about fear of future and its prospects. My dad has always said to take one day at a time and I have always applied it to my life, but with the side effects and this pain I guess I don't want one of these days for the rest of my life. I was hoping this neurologist would have more knowledge and be able to try different meds. It takes soooo long to get on a wait list and there are so few neurologists on Vancouver Island.

How did your neurologist gain more knowledge over the years?

Thank you,

Collette



LyndaS said:

Hi, Collette— My PCP, in year three of this adventure, thought the TN was from a virus. I just smiled and thought, you'll get schooled on this, I'm sure, before my next yearly appt. He did, and has been a godsend to both my husband and I. Keep in mind that most docs do not know very much about this unless they are a neurologist or neurosurgeon, or maybe they've studied up on it. It is rare, so their hands are not in this disorder until one of us warriors walk through the door. Our greatest weapon is knowledge about TN. It took my hubby and I a very long time to get a handle on this disorder. I don't want to scare you, but when I first showed the awful symptoms, tegretol was the first line of defense along with Paxil, which later became an enemy. (Another story.) My skin became yellow, along wiith my eyes. When I found out that blood tests should be done with using tegretol, I was so disappointed in my neurologist. I became hyper vigilant about my care. I refused to continue to take meds that were so exhausting and worked with the docs to go down the list of meds until I found a mild side effect med that would help me function well. At the time, my business was thriving and my kids were two, three and nine. I finally settled on neurontin, along with six other meds that are rotated (this is after two gamma knife surgeries and one MVD.). Botox is one of the meds, in the form of the treatment for migraine. And, I recently switched to Gralise, a time release neurontin. I manage very well for four out of seven weeks. Pain control is a beautiful thing...and it takes a while to get it right for your system. YOU are a strong TN warrior who is armed with knowledge that grows each day. Fear is present when we look at the future and it's prospects. But, if we look at this one day at a time, we function really well :D I wish you many blessings!
Sincerely,
Lynda

My Neuro said TN can be triggered by many things. Mine he thinks was due to an auto immune problem. I have been in remission for over a year, so there could be hope in what he says.

I’m also from Canada, Edmonton area actually.
Ten yrs ago I started with TN dx by my doctor and a neuro . Within a few months I was feeling pain on the other side. Saw a new neuro ( one of the best in Edmonton) and she said well it can’t be TN because TN is only one sided.
Say what?
My sx were classic, the Tegretol was working, so now I don’t have TN?
Needless to say I have learned over the years that doctors even specialists don’t always “know and keep up with” research for every single disease or disorder. YOU have to be your own advocate.
I currently have bilateral TN again, and my current neuro admits its rare but doesn’t say you don’t have TN, he treats my pain.
Really what it all comes down to for me is pain management so I can function. It is our right to be treated with respect. Maybe your visit will prompt your neuro to catch up on his/her TN research to better be able to ori with you.?!
Not everything is black and white ive learned so I try as was mentioned above to just take it one moment at a time, easier said than done, but I try.
I hope you are able to build a good relationship with your current neuro, focus on pain relief ,and try not to worry about the future… I had 8 yrs remission ! Hoping for that again! Best wishes! (( hugs))

Mimi, 8 years remission! Were you on meds for that time? How did it come back, was there a trigger? I am in remission and I pray it never returns. xx

Elstep, when I initially had TN it lasted 8 mths when it went away I thought that was it. I didn’t realize it could come back! I was naive and hadn’t done much research. So all that time ( 8yrs ) I wasn’t on any meds. I can’t think of any triggers what so ever! Wish I knew. My neuro said that most TN patients who do have it return in his experience it doesn’t go back into remission, it gets worse, so far his words have wrung true. I intend to prove him wrong though, and he hopes to see it too.
I hope you are one of the lucky ones who never sees it again! Continued good health!

Can anyone explain what causes TN to return after such a long time in remission. Does anyone know, or offer an explanation? Mimi, after 8 years, I think anyone would think you had got away with it!

Hello Bonnie...can you tell me where to get a copy of End the Pain ? I am trying to learn more about meds as I am on tegretol to combat TN pain ( I have had several procedures including MVD) I am wondering how to mix the meds up when I build up a tolerance to tegretol...tegretol is a blessing for me and I worry about what I will do when I reach to high a dosage down the line with tegretol.


Bonnie Gray said:

Hi Collette. I'm so sorry you are going through such terrible pain and to have a neurologist tell you that it may not be TN for sure. He needs to do more research. I gave my Neurologist a copy of End the Pain, which helped him in prescribing meds.

Your Dr. is wrong. Lots of people have it on both sides. I have TN on both sides. It started out on my Left side in my optic nerve area only. The Emerg. Dr. told me I had a sinus infection and gave me an antibiotic...which obviously, didn't help a bit. After 2 years of intense pain, and trials of every medication I could take.

I too am Canadian and I had a MVD in Winnipeg by Dr. A. Kaufmann. (Ask your Neurologist for a referral to see him.) (There is also a Dr. Kiss in Calgary who is a neurosurgeon), but he is number one in the country. The MVD seemed to work for a while, but then came back on both sides, but the right side was different - all 3 branches. I take approx. 1,200-1,400 mg. of Tegretol a day (every 4 hrs) and get my blood checked every 2-3 months which is very important.

You are not too young, as children are also diagnosed with this terrible thing. Naturopathic Drs seem to believe that it is a virus, but many of us who have had MVDs know that the pain is from a blood vessel, etc. pressing on the TNerve.

Keep doing your own research and become a warrior for your own health. I was just down in Mexico and had B12 shots every week for 2 months but unfortunately, it wasn't long enough to help me but I believe that they could and will try again.

I haven't been able to work for the past 5 yrs. and have finally just been approved for a permanent disability pension.

Wishing you pain free days and a final diagnosis and proper treatment. Hugs.

Bonnie

Thanks Cleo, I would love for you to be right and the dentist, dental surgeon and neuro to be wrong. None of them think it has anything to do with the TN. I will let you know.

Cleo said:

a cyst can be compared to a blister growing with infection. it can grow big enough to compress the trigeminal nerve - just like a vein/artery can compress the trigeminal nerve. compression against the nerve is what causes loss of myelin sheath. i still hold out hope that you will become better after you have this taken care of... best of luck to you!



collette said:

I remember you sending a video that I could not watch (squeamish). Sorry sometimes I look back at discussions that I have been in and I cannot even remember them. My mind is not what it normally is. I will try to have a look. Thanks Cleo.



Cleo said:

i sent you a couple of helpful links on that somewhere...

I have now been told that my results show that they are suspicious of lyme's. My overall test is negative but I was positive for band 31 IgM and 41 IgG and indeterminate for band 34 and 83-93. My doctor did not know how to read it so I sent it to a retired Lyme's specialist and he said I should be treated for lyme's (gave me instructions for my GP) and that TN is a result of lyme's. I am waiting to see if my GP will work with him or not. Canada does not treat Lyme's and denies there is a problem here. I am freaking out!


Jennifer G said:

Band 23 (I think that's the one) comes up positive for me on the Lyme test. When I read the fine print on the lab results it says that autoimmune diseases can cause false positives on Lyme tests.

Oh my goodness Collette. You have been through the ringer with this. I think in order for a positive Lyme result 5 bands have to be positive, please do not quote me on that… I HOPE that your dr’s can figure this out. I do know that there is a lab Igenex, that many people who are looking for answers about their Lymes results send samples to be tested.



collette said:

I have now been told that my results show that they are suspicious of lyme's. My overall test is negative but I was positive for band 31 IgM and 41 IgG and indeterminate for band 34 and 83-93. My doctor did not know how to read it so I sent it to a retired Lyme's specialist and he said I should be treated for lyme's (gave me instructions for my GP) and that TN is a result of lyme's. I am waiting to see if my GP will work with him or not. Canada does not treat Lyme's and denies there is a problem here. I am freaking out!


Jennifer G said:

Band 23 (I think that's the one) comes up positive for me on the Lyme test. When I read the fine print on the lab results it says that autoimmune diseases can cause false positives on Lyme tests.

According to IgeneX I am negative, however, the 5 positive bands are the CDC/NYC criteria, but a Lyme's specialist will give a positive diagnosis based on 2 positive double starred bands and based on symptoms (which I fit many). IgeneX also notes that the presence of only one double starred band or indeterminate double starred band may indicate clinical significance and that they recommend a retest or another testing method. Dr. Murakami is retired but is a well known Lyme's specialist who is willing to work with doctors and educate them. We are blessed to have him. An indeterminate double starred band is only a weak positive so once it becomes positive the virus has just been in your system longer and it is harder to treat. The diagnosis should not be based on tests alone but in conjunction with clinical symptoms and history. He feels that my results are suspicious of lyme's and that I should be treated for lyme's. If my GP is not willing to treat me then he said to go to a local (45 mins away) Naturopath who will work with him and who can write prescriptions so I have an alternative. Thanks for caring!

Jennifer G said:

Oh my goodness Collette. You have been through the ringer with this. I think in order for a positive Lyme result 5 bands have to be positive, please do not quote me on that..... I HOPE that your dr's can figure this out. I do know that there is a lab Igenex, that many people who are looking for answers about their Lymes results send samples to be tested.



collette said:

I have now been told that my results show that they are suspicious of lyme's. My overall test is negative but I was positive for band 31 IgM and 41 IgG and indeterminate for band 34 and 83-93. My doctor did not know how to read it so I sent it to a retired Lyme's specialist and he said I should be treated for lyme's (gave me instructions for my GP) and that TN is a result of lyme's. I am waiting to see if my GP will work with him or not. Canada does not treat Lyme's and denies there is a problem here. I am freaking out!


Jennifer G said:

Band 23 (I think that's the one) comes up positive for me on the Lyme test. When I read the fine print on the lab results it says that autoimmune diseases can cause false positives on Lyme tests.

I tested positive for band 23 IGM and band 58 IGG. So I'm negative too. The positive for 58 means nothing, but to be positive for band 23 makes me uncomfortable, because that one is specific to Lyme disease. How can I be negative if my body has made an antibody to this bacteria specific to lyme in band 23?

I don't have any of the symptoms, except the facial pain. Plus, in the last couple of years I have taken the antibiotics that would be prescribed if I were freshly positive, but for different reasons. The IGM implies that it's recent that this band 23 has occurred positive. I took a 20 day course of Augmentin in January, which is way stronger than the Amoxicillin or Doxy that they would treat with.


Collette -- your bands are not specific to Lyme, they are cross-reactive, so they could or could not be Lyme. (except for 83 - it's specific to Lyme) That doesn't mean you do or don't have Lyme. Just saying...

I wonder if everyone tests positive for at least one of the bands. I had my partner get a test so I can see what he gets. He got the results that he's "negative", but we need to get a copy of the report to see if any bands were positive.

I could have written this almost word for word except my 2nd positive band was 40something. I asked my dr about testing positive for band 23 and was told that people who have autoimmune disease (like me) can get a false positive. It also says that on my lab report.

My husband also had a Lyme test and his came back negative… I assumed that none of the bands tested positive because his result was just negative. The same lab did our tests.



crystalv said:

I tested positive for band 23 IGM and band 58 IGG. So I'm negative too. The positive for 58 means nothing, but to be positive for band 23 makes me uncomfortable, because that one is specific to Lyme disease. How can I be negative if my body has made an antibody to this bacteria specific to lyme in band 23?

I don't have any of the symptoms, except the facial pain. Plus, in the last couple of years I have taken the antibiotics that would be prescribed if I were freshly positive, but for different reasons. The IGM implies that it's recent that this band 23 has occurred positive. I took a 20 day course of Augmentin in January, which is way stronger than the Amoxicillin or Doxy that they would treat with.


Collette -- your bands are not specific to Lyme, they are cross-reactive, so they could or could not be Lyme. (except for 83 - it's specific to Lyme) That doesn't mean you do or don't have Lyme. Just saying...

I wonder if everyone tests positive for at least one of the bands. I had my partner get a test so I can see what he gets. He got the results that he's "negative", but we need to get a copy of the report to see if any bands were positive.

Both yours and mine came back negative too. The only reason I found out I had positive bands is because I asked for the report. Most people don't know how to read it, so if the lab says "negative", that's all the doctor cares about. And for the record, band 23 is specific to Lyme and it could not be confused with other autoimmune disorders. Other bands get confused, those are called "cross-reactive" bands. Band 23 is for the bacteria of Lyme, and that only. Band 23 can never be confused with other autoimmune disorders. Many of the other bands can, but not 23. (It does say that bands can be confused on my report to, but if you do the research, you'll find that band 23 is NOT one that can be confused)

Hence why I don't understand why my body would produce antibodies that are specific to Lyme only, if I don't have Lyme. I've been doing reading, and some Lyme specialists think that band 23 on its own is enough to be considered positive, if you have clinical symptoms as well.

It's freaking me out. I need to find a way to understand how I don't have Lyme but I'm positive for band 23.

Hi Crystal,

Can you please check this site out at the bottom?

You are much more knowledgeable than me and I cannot think very straight on tegretol (not sure if this would make sense even if I wasn't). Sorry to bring this up and freak you out -- not my intention -- this is all new to me.

This statement re: bands stands out for me and verifies what my lyme specialist said:

18 23 30 31 34 37 39 83 and 93.

Only one of these Borrelia burgdorferi genus specie specific bands is needed to confirm that there is serological evidence of exposure to the Borrelia burgdorferi spirochete and can confirm a clinical diagnosis of Lyme disease.

http://www.mdjunction.com/forums/lyme-disease-support-forums/genera...

I did google band 23 but when I saw that on the report that false positives can happen with autoimmune diseases I let it go. Now you guys have me wondering.

Yes, that is that mine showed as well. Did you have any Indeterminate results? This link is just explaining what the western blot test means and how a LD usually reads it. From what I can see a regular doctor takes an overall negative as negative, whereas a LD uses it with a patients clinical symptoms to make a diagnosis.

Jennifer G said:

It doesn't say on the report that band 23 can be confused with an autoimmune disorder. It says that people with auto immune disease can get a false positive. My report was broken down by bands and each was listed as either negative or positive.

Collette, that is one of the links I was using! Great minds... :)

So it's controversial whether or not one band means your positive. Right above the part you quoted about only needing to have one of those bands, it says,

"If results from the initial Western Blot are positive for bands 30 or 31, it is possible that these could be due to cross-reactivity with several different types of viruses.

That implies that 30 and 31 are not Lyme specific, which contradicts what they say right underneath it. It IS confusing. I've just recently began trying to understand it all.

I didn't have any indeterminate results, just the positive for 23IMG and 58IGG. I show no symptoms but I've been noticing a link between facial pain patients and Lyme disease, which is why I got tested. So I think that an LD would say I don't have it, since I have only one band and no symptoms.

But that pesky 23 band concerns me. I'll post when I see what my partner's results are. I'm thinking (hoping) that everyone tests positive for one or two of the bands.

Collette - I want to re-post what I said on the previous page about your bands.

"Collette -- your bands are not specific to Lyme, they are cross-reactive, so they could or could not be Lyme. (except for 83 - it's specific to Lyme) That doesn't mean you do or don't have Lyme. Just saying..."

So the only one you had that was specific to Lyme was one of the ones that indeterminate, which means they couldn't get a positive, but a little bit showed up. You could still have Lyme, but your bands are less scary to me. Although you do have a positive for 41, and though it's not Lyme specific, some people think that's an important one because it tends to show up first. It seems that doctors cannot agree over 41.