Using methadone for Unresolved TN pain

My experience is very different. My neurologist and cardiologist are at the Cleveland Clinic. I receive a written D-Methadone prescription which I receive from my neurologist in the mail and I fill at my local Virginia hospital. I receive less 2.5 mg pills than 30 per month and am instructed to take them only when face pain med will not cover and I am at like 25 in pain. The d-methadone makes me speedy and I can’t sleep at all. But it distracts my brain and I tolerate the pain better. I am also very clear thinking so I believe I could work on it. I had hoped it would make me very sleepy.

Drugs were invented for valuable reasons. We must fight to keep them available but used properly.

-JM

Please excuse typos and brevity as this was sent from my iPhone and honor my request for confidentiality if written. Thank you.

Thats not so different, that’s how it SHOULD be managed. Its the groups who don’t manage it that way who making availability difficult.

TJ I’m in Ohio and I work for a pharm that fills nationwide and that’s not my experience at all. Particularly the thing about the cardiologist. It sounds like your area has had both illegal prescription drug prescribing, pharmacies that were complicit, and knee jerk over reaction to the situation.

Methadone has become a common pain med in cancer treatments. No cardio or hospice involved. Its being gradually used for other intractable pain as well. Addiction clinics are a situation into themselves.

Pharmacies are retailers and pharmaceuticals are retail items. Policies on stocking meds vary widely as do some filling policies. Other than basic federal law about how many refills a med can have and sometimes day supply the filling policies are set by the pharmacy.

If you use insurance your refill dare is impacted by when and how your insurance is willing to help defray the cost of the med. This is also a retail issue and a for profit health insurance issue, not regulatory.

A pharmacist has responsibilities to fill properly and within the law regarding day supplies and number of refills. They should be alert for illegal activities and fraudulent activities but they are not responsible for how meds are prescribed or for what. They also have the right to refuse to fill or to decide to fill (again within basic federal guidelines, the key word being basic).

Refusing to fill should not be considered a very red light. It should be an indication you need to double check that pharmacies policies and your insurance should you be using it. This is assuming you aren’t participating in criminal activities yourself.

As an example I know of two pharms in my area that will not stock or dispense any CII med, these are the ones that can’t have refills. I know of another that carries no CII or CIII meds. These are retail store policies only. On the flip side I work for a pharmacy that dispenses 90 days at a time of all meds, including methadone, unless state law prohibits it and there are only 2 or 3 states that do that.

At the end of the day prescriptions are retail items. You can pay cash, use coupons, use insurance, get rebates … With a legal prescription all meds are available to all people all of the time.

Not just this area, in case you haven’t heard it is a nationwide problem and frankly the US is about the only place it is happening in the world.

New practice guidelines were instituted regarding the use of opiods and particularly
Bupreophine on March 14, 2017 and again updated April 17, 2017, and again May 3, 2017 that apply specifically to their use for non malignant or acute pain situations. While these regulations apply most specifically to prescribing physicians, they have a strong effect on Formularies. there are lot of states whose “laws” are changing. But irregardless of what a states law may be individual states practice guidelines (the rules doctors have to abide by) almost always are ahead of state law as a majority of states still operate on biennium or annual legislative process. Title 21 Code of Federal Regulations > Part 1306 > 1306.07 has detoxification dispensing under clinical supervision only since 2005. For example the cardiologist requirement for non malignant pain is a practice requirement, while it may not in every case be legislative requirement the physician can and is (finally) liable both civilly and criminally if something goes wrong and it is only going to get stricter as practice guidelines are the standard. The idea is simply that doctors regulate doctors better than state legislators.

The standard for dispensing methadone to a terminal cancer patient for example is different than acute pain or chronic pain. Thus the cardiologist for chronic pain patients. The feds say “shall require each patient to undergo a complete, fully documented physical evaluation by a program physician or a primary care physician, or an authorized healthcare professional under the supervision of a program physician” Under CFR 8.12, How that happens is determine by a state medical board’s practice guidleines and that for chronic pain now in 47 (soon to be 50 states) happens to include a cardiology consult.

The reason is prolonged QT interval preclude methadone use because patients die at an alarming rate using methadone if it is. But it isn’t a simple matter of looking at at ekg and determining the if the QT is within normal values for the QT interval which are between 0.30 and 0.44 (0.45 for women) seconds. Prolonged QT interval has been defined as > 450 milliseconds for men and > 460 – 470 milliseconds for women.

Obviously ones heart rate has bearing so the QT interval generally is corrected for its dependence on heart rate using Bazett’s formula:30 QTc = QT interval (in milliseconds) divided by the square root of the preceding RR interval (in seconds). But its not the only way of doing it (or the best) Nor is it it the only consideration for heart problems.

If you are interested about the physiology of al this: the problem is the causation of the prolonged QT interval involves the human ether-a-go-go-related gene (hERG) and the subunit of the voltage-gated potassium channels (found predominantly in the myocardium) for which it encodes. These channels are the predominant facilitators of the delayed-rectifier potassium ion currents, which cause repolarization. Abnormalities in these channels have been shown to lead to prolonged action potentials that are expressed as long QT intervals on the electrocardiogram. The health risks associated with a prolonged QT interval are not clear. Although individuals with a prolonged QT interval often usually asymptomatic, some may develop palpitations, syncope, seizures, or cardiac arrest. when sodium channel blockers are introduced.

Anesthetics are one of them (thus the required pre-op ekg) as are anti-seizure medicines often used for TN but the most potent of all are narcotics and especially methadone (its why all addicts and regular users of narcotic medications eventually die) QT interval prolongation can also lead to the potentially fatal reentrant arrhythmia known as Torsades de Pointes when potassium channel blockers are intoduced. Again its not a big deal for a cancer patient who’s going to die anyway, but important to those who aren’t.

The implementation of “First Fill” regulations under AB 1124 Drug Formulary regs that took effect In July of this year has closed up some of the sizable loop holes state agencies and Insurance company formularies operated under (soley to save money,) that were outside the intent practice guidelines (but within the "legal requirements.) Sure with a legal prescription all meds are available to all people all of the time, but Pharmacies are now held accountable to make sure they are legal prescriptions.

First fill requirements met and do meet the compassionate reasons. Obviously all the medical stuff takes time, so basically what has happened is for these scheduled meds, a 7 day prescription can be filled with little difficulty. subsequent prescriptions however have to meet all the rules.

TJ

Practice Guidelines have nothing to do with pharmacy guidelines or pharmacy filling practices. I’m speaking strictly from the pharmacy side of things. A pharmacy is not required to verify a doctor followed whatever practice guidelines are out there. A pharmacy is required to fill the given prescription within the given pharmacy laws – and to work within insurance guidelines should a customer want to use insurance.

Also, practice guidelines are guidelines and do not have to be followed for legal prescriptions to be written. Is that best practice? Not always. But it’s the physician’s call on what to do.

The Assembly Bill 1124 (Statutes 2015, Chapter 525) requires the adoption of an evidence based workers’ compensation drug formulary by July 1, 2017 that involves first fill requirements. Workers’ Comp is an entirely differenty situation than simply walking to a pharmacy and requsting a medication.

At the end of the day all I’m saying is never let a pharmacy tell you a medication is not covered. You must review that specific pharmacies filling policies and check with any insurance or rebate you’re using to determine when a medication is available for purchase and for how much. Medications are always available.

I am following Azurelle perfectly and she is right on. TJ what is it that has you upset? you cannot get your drug?

Please excuse typos and brevity as this was sent from my iPhone and honor my request for confidentiality if written. Thank you.

Being unfamiliar with CFR 8.12 I looked it up while at work (at a pharmacy) and CFR 8.12 is opioid treatment standards. Treatment. Not prescribing or dispensing of opioids. These are three very different things with three very different sets of guidelines.

All the various details can be incredibly confusing and all the hysteria in the press about opioids isn’t helping (don’t get me started about that!).

I guess my final words on the idea of getting the meds is to not take no for an answer.

exactly!

Please excuse typos and brevity as this was sent from my iPhone and honor my request for confidentiality if written. Thank you.