I know this will be one taboo Discussion topic and so, I'm reluctant to even broach the topic... I understand that alcohol intake is a controversial topic no matter how it's presented.
I also realize that there are far more female TN/facial pain sufferers than there are males, and that women have a healthy, natural aversion to alcohol.
My Type 1 TN has had me spinning the combination-lock on my gun safe on more than one occasion. However, by now, I know my capacity to withstand extreme facial pain and fear Almighty GOD, enough to not follow through with that easy way out of this torture.
I detest taking meds for personal reasons, and take as few as possible with lower dosages than prescribed.
In recent months, as my pain attacks have become more intense, I limit myself to 3X 300mg daily and NO MORE. Before bedtime, while cruising the internet, etc., I'll have 2-3 glasses of Cab. with my 3rd Gab before my head hits the pillow.
Gratefully, the good old red Cabernet Sauvignon (Cab), or any alcohol, seems to dull my pain shocks and seems to help soothe my scattered, cynical and desperate mind.
Alcohol is a depressant. Anti-convulsants can have the same action. Adding one plus one can equal five in this situation. I recommend that you deal better with the emotional pattern that prompts you to "take as few as possible with lower dosages than prescribed", where your prescribed meds are concerned. That pattern is your mortal enemy, Rick. It can literally destroy you if you don't deal with it and overcome it.
I have had ATN for many years and I too hated having to take medication at first but after a while I came to realise that I will probably have to take meds for a very long time and that its OK. I have tried quite a few different medications but am now on 3 x 800mg of gabapentin and 25mg of Endep before bed. This combination has given me some relief with only mild side effects. Check with your doctor about increasing your dosage and you might find that a small increase might give you more relief. Try not to think of your meds as the enemy, they are prescribed to help us.
Yep, it's a thin-ice topic. As "do no harm" is a major tenet of our group, I understand your post not to be a recommendation but a mention of your own experience. Alcohol injection is an accepted temporary pain relief treatment but without the Cab chaser.
Before I was properly diagnosed and prescribed effective medication( gabapentin,lamictal and oxycodone) , I drank a lot. It worked. However, I did pay unhappy consequences for that. But be warned: drinking in combination with meds can bring on major depression in addition to other problems. Be Careful!
Although I can never be said to agree with mixing alcohol and medication, I have to take you up on your comment about the female aversion to alcohol. Here in the UK we are seeing dramatic rises in alcohol consumption by females. Also our intake has risen 50% in a generation. The affects on the population are immense and someone who takes medication should be aware of the increased risks. I have spoken to my Liver specialist about this as I have issues and worries. I don't really care much about drinking but I care about my poor hammered liver, it has enough to cope with. Between us we decided that if I drank 1 unit with a weekly meal out or on vacation I should be OK. I am not trying to dictate your lifestyle however, as your friend I urge you to have a re-think about what Red says. When your Dr says just a minute, your blood test came back and I am worried, it is wake up time.Frightened the heck out of me and I consumed 1-2 units a week at the time. The first four letters of the word liver describe how important it is to us.
To all of you who replied with your wise advice- Red, Anne, SF Bill, Jackie and Zen Blonde, I thank you.
I was on 2X 300mg of Gabapentin which wasn't doing anything for me. During my recent neurologist visit, I mentioned that, and the fact that I'd read on-line (here) that there are many accounts of people taking as much as 2,700 mg daily. My doctor told me I could work my way up to that dosage gradually to see how I did with it.
Though my liver function test numbers have always been normal, I've always been scared to death of meds and possible liver damage--so I stopped at 900mg--where I still have significant pain. So I'll take your collective wisdom to heart and find the dose level that gives me some real relief. I won't be "catching that Cab" tonight...Blessings, Rick
Unlike Tegretol, Gabapentin is metabolized outside the liver, Rick. That's one reason patients are sometimes switched to Gabapentin -- and the reason why my wife sought actively to be.
So glad Rick.... my doctor assured me there are no long term issues with the liver like Tegretol has. Both my GP and my neurologist told me this. I was quite adamant about not taking it either. One thing to consider as well, gabapenin can be mixed with other drugs that are okay on your system as well.....
I LOVE red wine like nothing else. I LOVE LOVE LOVE IT!!!!!! Of all the things I have had to give up, this is one of the worst for me. I have severe insomnia and it was always one of things that relaxed me enough to lay there at night and sometimes fall asleep..... But the one thing my doc was very clear about... I had to give up the nightly wine. To much of a risk of liver issues. Bye bye wine.
I think you are making a good decision. My doctor prescribed xanax at night to go to sleep (my mind does not turn off like normal people's - go figure).
alcohol increases dopamine in your brain; dopamine is a chemical responsible for pleasure. the brain works to create a delicate balancing act by producing and maintaining enough dopamine so that you feel generally pleasant. any disruption in the balancing act leads to a host of problems; pain and depression being a notable two.
an anti depressant's method of action, like Amitriptyline, works similarly to the natural function performed by your brain, . an anti depressant increases dopamine, and prevents your brain from recycling, or "re-uptaking" too much of it back into your system. the increase of dopamine caused by these drugs helps to increase the pleasure neurons in your brain.
anti seizures work to slow down chemicals in your brain thought to modulate pain signals, like calcium, sodium and potassium. however, the word depressant is, at best, a comparative word used to describe the decrease in channel activity within your brain. they are not depressants; a hallmark of depressant drugs is the risk for addiction, a risk not associated with anti convulsant medication.
lastly, two common actions alcohol and anti seizure drugs both share are 1) an increase of GABA activity in your brain, which is why we stumble when drinking too much or when on a high dose of medication, and 2) the slowing down of the calcium channel in the brain, which is why we feel drowsy when we drink or take anti seizure medication. both of these activities, combined with an increase of dopamine, contribute to why we feel less pain of any kind when we drink alcohol.
please talk to your doctor for a more in depth discussion of your medications, how they work, and any contraindications.
I hear of others using alcohol to get them through. I would say most of us understand the desperation. I am certainly not one to judge. During my long attacks that have me laying on the floor for 5-7 minutes, I would venture to say that if someone told me a glass of red wine was the answer, I too might use that. However, red wine gives me migraines and drinking has something I have never done. LOL. I hate meds too. That is depressing enough, right? Please be careful while mixing meds and alcohol though. It sounds like others worry about that too. We are all in a pickle with TN. What to do, what works, what doesn't, the side effects......and sometimes we end up back at 'go' Sending you a big hug my friend
Thank you for a very insightful reply. May I ask you a couple of questions related to what you’ve written here?
My hypertension is now well under control since my Internal Medicine Doc increased my BP med (Enalapril/HCTZ) from 5mg to 10 mg daily. I’ve been using a salt substitute (potassium) for years and use quite a bit of it-but not to an extreme degree. Based on what you say about pain modulator elements, do you think I’m setting myself up for TN pain by using the potassium salt substitute fairly liberally?
Also, I eat hard, aged cheese daily. I’m “addicted” (Uh-oh, there’s that word again…) to high-end black coffee and love it with my cheddar cheese; which I sprinkle with the potassium. Might that calcium intake make me more susceptible to TN pain break-outs? Thanks in advance for any thoughts on this. Rick
vesper venustas said:
alcohol increases dopamine in your brain; dopamine is a chemical responsible for pleasure. the brain works to create a delicate balancing act by producing and maintaining enough dopamine so that you feel generally pleasant. any disruption in the balancing act leads to a host of problems; pain and depression being a notable two.
an anti depressant's method of action, like Amitriptyline, works similarly to the natural function performed by your brain, . an anti depressant increases dopamine, and prevents your brain from recycling, or "re-uptaking" too much of it back into your system. the increase of dopamine caused by these drugs helps to increase the pleasure neurons in your brain.
anti seizures work to slow down chemicals in your brain thought to modulate pain signals, like calcium, sodium and potassium. however, the word depressant is, at best, a comparative word used to describe the decrease in channel activity within your brain. they are not depressants; a hallmark of depressant drugs is the risk for addiction, a risk not associated with anti convulsant medication.
lastly, two common actions alcohol and anti seizure drugs both share are 1) an increase of GABA activity in your brain, which is why we stumble when drinking too much or when on a high dose of medication, and 2) the slowing down of the calcium channel in the brain, which is why we feel drowsy when we drink or take anti seizure medication. both of these activities, combined with an increase of dopamine, contribute to why we feel less pain of any kind when we drink alcohol.
please talk to your doctor for a more in depth discussion of your medications, how they work, and any contraindications.
Rick, aplogies as the question is not to me. I just wanted to but in and say that I crave salt. For my health I try not to overindulge. But in a perfect world I would eat those things regularly. I have no idea if this is true but a friend with high BP told me last week that the substitute salt is worse for you than real, she urged me to change to sea salt. I find that too salty though! I have also been told by Lisa here that she craves salt as Gab has changed her taste buds like mine . I now find sweet foods taste too sweet! Urghhhhh
there are anecdotal theories that diet has a cause and effect on TN pain (one of which is caffeine.) none of it is really substantiated by credible research; something which is unfortunate, likely because it's not a strong argument for research funding. to answer your question, eating cheese and consuming a salt substitute is likely not enough to have any effect on nerve pain, good or bad. vitamin supplements have more concentrated amounts, enough to read on a blood test anyway. if you're truly curious, experiment by omitting these from your diet and keeping a pain journal.
Greetings out there in "Rush Limbaugh Country"! (I wasn't sure if that was a horse in your picture so I clicked on it to enlarge and it took me to your profile--I wasn't trying to pry...). Thanks for your kind words. Blessings, Rick
Cindy said:
I hear of others using alcohol to get them through. I would say most of us understand the desperation. I am certainly not one to judge. During my long attacks that have me laying on the floor for 5-7 minutes, I would venture to say that if someone told me a glass of red wine was the answer, I too might use that. However, red wine gives me migraines and drinking has something I have never done. LOL. I hate meds too. That is depressing enough, right? Please be careful while mixing meds and alcohol though. It sounds like others worry about that too. We are all in a pickle with TN. What to do, what works, what doesn't, the side effects......and sometimes we end up back at 'go' Sending you a big hug my friend
A greatly under-used pain treatment I see on here are Lidocaine Patches / Cream -- Topically it helped me sleep through the night or would just have it on my face when lowering or changing my meds - intermittently
Might be a good exchange for the imbibing! Although I did/do that every saturday night when I go dancing -
now that I've had MVD - I have had very little trouble -- Keep Posting!
Lidocaine patches/cream should be readily available. That's a good thing because I'll try anything at this point.
Thanks for the tip. As for how Lido works for me, I'll keep everyone plugged-in. Thanks!
Blessings, Rick
Kc Dancer Kc said:
A greatly under-used pain treatment I see on here are Lidocaine Patches / Cream -- Topically it helped me sleep through the night or would just have it on my face when lowering or changing my meds - intermittently
Might be a good exchange for the imbibing! Although I did/do that every saturday night when I go dancing -
now that I've had MVD - I have had very little trouble -- Keep Posting!
Thanks for the kind words and concern, and I commend you on your decision to be a life-long abstainer. Despite the coaxing and cajoling from friends, etc., being a teetotaler will definitely make person's life less complicated. I'm now weening my way off of alcohol thanks to all the cautionary comments here on the Forums; I'm so thankful that it exists for us. I've just started taking a higher daily dosage of my Gabapentin (from 900 to 1800mg) so now drinking is a no-no.
Blessings, Rick
Lupa said:
Just dropping in my two cents, though can't say anything more helpful than what has already been said, sorry about that!
When it comes to alcohol, I'm a teetotaller...And copped some flak for it over the years too. Now, I have the perfect excuse for why I won't just "lighten up and have a drink"...Alcohol and medication don't really mix well...But I would think that given the purported health benefits of a glass of wine (of the red variety, so I hear) if your doctor gave the ok on the occasional glass, (knowing which medications and doseage you are taking) I can't see the harm in it...?
The harm comes when it turns from the occasional glass for the pleasure of it, to more and more in attempts to block things, be they physical or emotional and I think TN definately qualifies as both...I don't know you at all, and pass no judgement on you since I have no right to...But would urge you to please be careful, and discuss it with your doctor...Maybe you could find a medication that deals with it better while still maintaining a low dose?
Well, it is sad; and coming from me, that's saying something. Between NZ, the UK, Oz and the USA we've got the alcohol consumption thing down pat. I didn't even mention W. Europe, Scandinavia, E. Europe, Russia and others. Competitive team sports and club-hopping drives much of that binge drinking. Personally, I'm glad I got beyond that stage at about 33 yrs old. There was quite a bit of wreckage in my life prior to that that I'm not proud of--Oh-oh, I'm starting to sound like the facilitator at an AA meeting!
As a side note, have you folks in NZ fully recovered from the 2011 earthquake down there. Hope so!
Blessings, Rick
Lupa said:
Fingers crossed for you Rick! Keep us updated on your progress :)
It's kind of off topic, but just thought I'd mention - I'm only 27, and because I don't drink I've been harrassed a fair amount at certain times...Which, while not only being annoying that they can't respect anothers life choice, I think is a sad reflection of just how much alcohol has become part of our everyday society...That it is considered the norm to be drinking, and not vice versa :(
Here in NZ, we are definately a 'drinking culture', with binge drinking being a social habit especially amongst women...Just thought I'd add that, in regards to the comment in your initial post about most women having a healthy aversion to it. Sad, no?
Jackie, "Butting-in" is not a problem with me-just go ahead and fire-away at any time. I'll check into the potassium substitute angle. It tastes fine and I'd hate to have to give it up; but I would if need be. When I learned that TN was probably causing the terrible pain, and did a little research on it, I quit eating refiner sugar in all foods. The reason for that is I never wanted another dentist or hygienist in my mouth ever again. I was cavity free at that point and my intent was to stay that way--that was March '09. Other than a bite from a small piece of birthday cake on my daughter's birthday in '10 and '11, I've stuck to that regimen.
And, I totally agree, my Brit Sister, that sea salt is just too intense! Blessings, Rick
Jackie said:
Rick, aplogies as the question is not to me. I just wanted to but in and say that I crave salt. For my health I try not to overindulge. But in a perfect world I would eat those things regularly. I have no idea if this is true but a friend with high BP told me last week that the substitute salt is worse for you than real, she urged me to change to sea salt. I find that too salty though! I have also been told by Lisa here that she craves salt as Gab has changed her taste buds like mine . I now find sweet foods taste too sweet! Urghhhhh
Hi: just wanted to chime in here, a few times a week I will have a glass of vino or 2 to unwind from the day. I do not related this to coping as this same exact pattern that existed pre-TN. Very conscious of my relationship with drugs and alcohol as I have seen good friends and family get crushed by their addictions. This said with this TN development (on 5.5 months here) I proceed extremely cautiously and checked with my pharmacist to ensure I am not going to pull an Elvis here...
Although you should keep a close eye on your "patterns" and relationship with alcohol as if you are seeing a change (uptick or just a lil daily drink or 3 every day), then don't hesitate to ask someone for help esp here there are so many folks to give you a hand