TN/ATN...Viral Infection?

1

Has anyone heard or read anything about our condition(s) being linked to a viral infection? Or…hormonal imbalance?

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I've been studying the medical literature of face pain for about seventeen years. In that time, I've not seen a credible link between emergence of TN/ATN and either viruses or hormones. That said, however, Post Herpetic Neuralgia is sometimes mistaken even by doctors for Atypical TN. And there's a large body of medical research suggesting that the female menstrual cycle interacts with women's sensitivity or vulnerability to pain. PMS and fibromyalgia, for instance, can profoundly interact. There are also articles in the Pub Med database on connections between classic TN and thyroid or pituitary problems.

Go in Peace and Power

Red

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Thanks for the info Red. I’m convinced that all my problems began when major menopausal symptoms hit two years ago. I developed TN (later realized ATN on my own - my neurologist said there was no difference!), had unsuccessful MVD (they didn’t find a compression), never felt recovered after surgery (always extremely exhausted), developed shingles this past winter and now recurrent/chronic mono. A doctor I recently went to wants to retest my cortisol levels because he doesn’t believe they were tested in the best way. He thinks I may have adrenal fatigue also…this would relate to the thyroid theory, correct? The shingles and mono/epstein bar virus are from one of the herpes zoster (not genital) viruses. I think this is also at the root of things somehow and I am wondering now if this virus has something to do with TN/ATN. I think I’m onto something here, it’s a gut feeling…I wish there was someone out there who knew. Maybe the virus was dormant and my menopause lowered my immune system and then all these things came about??? ONE DAY AT A TIME…I want answers though…

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Have you done any searches for abstracts at the Pub Med database at NIH? It’s a logical place to start looking for the match between “virus” and “trigeminal”.

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Hello Jamie

I'd be curious to see how many people have the herpes simplex virus type 1 infection the one that causes cold sores. I know I have this virus for about once a year I get a nasty cold sore and more often if eat lots of chocholate which I balance out by taking Lysine which is a amino acid. I suffer from Atypical Trigminal Neuralgia and have always wondered if there is a correlation between the two. I have read -that this latent virus reactivates at the facial nerve, the immune system begins to produce antibodies, causing an inflammation. This is a normal function, and is part of the process that eliminates harmful foreign bodies such as viruses and bacteria so that we can recover from illness and injury. If the location of the inflammation is within the certain nerve canals there is no room for the swelling to expand. The nerve itself becomes inflamed, or the inflammation within the canal exerts pressure on the nerve. The result is that the nerve is compressed inside its bony tube. Compression of the nerve is the injury that stops transmission of signals to muscles. Unable to receive signals to contract and relax, the muscles become temporarily weakened or paralyzed. Not sure how accurate or if significant evidence is available but Its interesting question the comparison of a virus or hormonal balance causing the pain.
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yes I think there is a link between women at the menopause age. I will be 50 this year and the hormonal changes are crazy. Mine seemed to start after having swollen lymph glands in my neck but no one could find any infections although at the time I kept going back to the GP saying to look in my ears cause I thought I must have an ear infection and before that went twice to see if I had a throat infection because of the pain , only to be told there was none, thats when I knew something wasn’t right as I do not imagine pain !

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Wow...we may be on to something here. I REALLY think this herpes virus has something to do with it. Most people have one form of the virus lying dormant in their bodies...the epstein bar virus...I'm not real clear on all the medical stuff...

Judy - I have the lymph gland stuff going on right now - a year and a half after being diagnosed with TN.

Red, I've never done a search on Pub Med...not sure how to do that.

This ALL HAD TO BE CONNECTED...wouldn't it be a miracle if we could get to the bottom of this?

Maybe the hormones aggravate the condition (virus) and our immunities get even lower because of the stress of menopause; then the virus comes out of hiding???

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Jamie, I hate to rain on your parade, but there's an old and very strong rule of thumb in all of science: "correlation is not cause." Just because two things often happen at the same time or in sequence, doesn't mean that one caused the other, or indeed that they are related at all. The Herpes Zoster virus which causes Shingles is of course the active agent in Post Herpetic Neuralgia. But Herpes Simplex I has never been reliably connected to facial neuropathic pain (that I've ever seen in medical literature). I found only one abstract out of millions on Pub Med that attempts to make this connection, and it appears to be a speculation rather than a study based on validated data. However, if you'd like to correspond with the author, I will do what I can to track down an email address.

See:

Med Hypotheses. 2002 Nov;59(5):603-6.

Are latent, immediate-early genes of herpes simplex virus-1 essential in causing trigeminal neuralgia?

Ecker AD, Smith JE.

Source

Biology Department, Upstate Medical University, Syracuse, New York 13244-1270, USA.

Abstract

The etiology and pathogenesis of major trigeminal neuralgia remain largely unknown, but are believed to result from an irritative lesion near the semilunar ganglion. We suggest that its primary cause is a single, active DNA sequence in the persistent but non-integrated genome of latent herpes simplex virus type 1 commonly observed in a few infected A-delta nerve fibers of the cheek. Facial pain occurs as a result of herpes virus reactivation and when supplies of neurotrophins controlling normal transport functions of axolemmal ion channels become depleted.

Comment in

PMID:
12376087
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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Thanks for checking that out Red. For me this abstract makes me lean even more toward the herpes virus to be at the root of my facial pain, shingles and recurrent mono. Am I missing something? I don’t know much medically; I only know how I feel and I really think there’s a connection here. Science (and all the doctors I’ve seen) don’t seem to have any answers…guess I’m just searching for something that makes sense because before the past couple years I’d been as healthy as a horse. Thanks again Red for all of your research:)



Richard A. “Red” Lawhern said:

Jamie, I hate to rain on your parade, but there's an old and very strong rule of thumb in all of science: "correlation is not cause." Just because two things often happen at the same time or in sequence, doesn't mean that one caused the other, or indeed that they are related at all. The Herpes Zoster virus which causes Shingles is of course the active agent in Post Herpetic Neuralgia. But Herpes Simplex I has never been reliably connected to facial neuropathic pain (that I've ever seen in medical literature). I found only one abstract out of millions on Pub Med that attempts to make this connection, and it appears to be a speculation rather than a study based on validated data. However, if you'd like to correspond with the author, I will do what I can to track down an email address.

See:

Med Hypotheses. 2002 Nov;59(5):603-6.

Are latent, immediate-early genes of herpes simplex virus-1 essential in causing trigeminal neuralgia?

Source

Biology Department, Upstate Medical University, Syracuse, New York 13244-1270, USA.

Abstract

The etiology and pathogenesis of major trigeminal neuralgia remain largely unknown, but are believed to result from an irritative lesion near the semilunar ganglion. We suggest that its primary cause is a single, active DNA sequence in the persistent but non-integrated genome of latent herpes simplex virus type 1 commonly observed in a few infected A-delta nerve fibers of the cheek. Facial pain occurs as a result of herpes virus reactivation and when supplies of neurotrophins controlling normal transport functions of axolemmal ion channels become depleted.

PMID:
12376087
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
10

Hi All,

I have been dealing with what I think is ATN for over 6 months. I have never been a day without pain. Even though I have been in pain everyday, I feel that I have had a relapse of some sort. I am at a 10 on a pain scale. I have now developed a cold sore on the side my pain is on. This also did happen when the pain came on suddenly in March. The cold sore came days after the pain increased. Does anyone see any correlation here. My Neuro now wants me to start on a course of Famvir and a low dose of Lyrica in addition to-

Cymbalata 90mg, Neurontin 1200mg, and Zoloft 100mg

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Of the drugs you identify, Neurontin and Famvir may have the best likelihood of helping in Post Herpetic Neuralgia. Zoloft and Cymbalta can help calm you down and disconnect the depressive elements in your pain that contribut to more pain through stress.

As I've commented previously, the literature doesn't offer a strong case for face pain developing out of Herpes Simplex I (the bug that causes cold sores). But Herpes Zoster is the agent that causes Shingles and PHN. And the cold sore in your mouth can also be associated with Shingles rash. These meds seem to be the best that medical science can offer for driving Zoster back into remission.

Regards, Red