Have any of you tried this type of therapy for TN? I am curious about it. The logic seems sound to me but dare I hope it could work?
It was suggested to me by a CT scan nurse last week. She has been using it for her neck and shoulder pain with great success and she said she wondered if it would work for TN as well. Her pain is caused by trapped nerves and TN is also a nerve pain either from irritation, compression or extreme sensitivity.
I've not tried Electromagnetic Therapy (ET) before but I have tried acupuncture. I felt acupuncture was successful for a while and then stopped working for me. I am curious to hear what other's have experienced with ET.
A couple of serious reservations on this, if I may. First, there are no published trials demonstrating effectiveness for this class of techniques under double-blind conditions, for any neurologic condition that I am aware of. The mechanisms involved in pulsed electromagnetic therapy are really not understood. Second, Doctor Oz has been cautioned by FDA for advocating "therapies" that have no basis in science. A good many people view him as an educated quack. Third, Joel Carmichael is a chiropractor. Unless he has also done a residency in neurology, he really doesn't have training in that field; arguably, a lot of things he's been told in his education as a chiropractor are just flat out wrong if not fraudulent.
In samplings of patient-to-patient blogs, I've seen a number of comments suggesting that the whole framework of so-called Pulsed Electro Magnetic Field therapy is pseudo-science. To get a sense of the arguments underway among non-professionals on this area of medicine, you might read some of the many comments here: http://www.sillybeliefs.com/magnets-rc.html
In my opinion, this "therapy" presently has no reliable science beneath it. I don't see evidence that it is harmful for people with chronic face pain. But neither do I see evidence that it is helpful.
I respect and appreciate your opinion Red. I shared this on the site because I value the information shared and the conversations that result from the posts. I was not feeling completely ‘sold’ on this therapy but hope does strange things to a person.
Richard A. “Red” Lawhern said:
A couple of serious reservations on this, if I may. First, there are no published trials demonstrating effectiveness for this class of techniques under double-blind conditions, for any neurologic condition that I am aware of. The mechanisms involved in pulsed electromagnetic therapy are really not understood. Second, Doctor Oz has been cautioned by FDA for advocating “therapies” that have no basis in science. A good many people view him as an educated quack. Third, Joel Carmichael is a chiropractor. Unless he has also done a residency in neurology, he really doesn’t have training in that field; arguably, a lot of things he’s been told in his education as a chiropractor are just flat out wrong if not fraudulent.
In samplings of patient-to-patient blogs, I’ve seen a number of comments suggesting that the whole framework of so-called Pulsed Electro Magnetic Field therapy is pseudo-science. To get a sense of the arguments underway among non-professionals on this area of medicine, you might read some of the many comments here: http://www.sillybeliefs.com/magnets-rc.html
In my opinion, this “therapy” presently has no reliable science beneath it. I don’t see evidence that it is harmful for people with chronic face pain. But neither do I see evidence that it is helpful.
I interpreted your posting in the manner you intended, Patty. My response was not a slam on your and I hope it wasn't heard as one. When I run into things like pulsed electro magnetic field therapy or cold laser therapy, I try to be fair and balanced. All the same, I see an awful number of nostrums being touted as cures for everything under the sun. And when I've researched such "alternatives", I try to make people aware that they are very often both expensive and ineffective -- and in some cases pose risks of causing TN flares.
I encourage you to start other conversations about alternative therapies, Patty. A lot of people get burned by them, but others invest faith and hope in them. I'm working on a paper "as we speak" about peripheral nerve stimulators, for precisely this reason.
I did not feel a slam or anything negative in your response Red. I truly respect and value your opinion and am thankful for the prompt comments from yourself and others on the site.
Is ET like TENS? I've used that for pain relief on back, shoulders, upper arms. I was told by my PT of the time not to use it higher than my shoulders since the electric pulses could cause accidents in the brain and CNS. Does anyone know which is true?
Maris, Pulsed Electro Magnetic Therapy is considerably different from TENS. I can't verify from what I've read that PEMT actually does anything in the brain. But from patients I've talked with over the past few weeks, I know that TENS can cause pain flares if the electrodes (pads) are placed in the wrong positions on the neck or skull. I would say that neither device should be used without a physician's active oversight and direction on placement of the pads and programming of the pulse program in the device.
My Mayo Clinic trained neuro recommended a Cefaly device which is a neuro stimulator you use at home. I got it yesterday so only have had a few sessions with it. So far it feels uncomfortable during treatment but immediately afterward extremely relaxing. Apparently with use the discomfort eases and/or disappears. It is approved by Health Canada for migraines. Works directly on Trigeminal system. My neuro thinks it’s worth trying. A lot of her migraine and cluster headache patients have success with the Cefaly. Takes weeks or months to make a change. It is not a “cure” but designed to help reduce meds. A treatment to be used on regular basis. The Cefaly device is made in Belguim.
Scientific America had another much more detailed article about Transcranial magnetic stimulation last December which I posted on this forum. Will hunt for link.
I am interested in talking to my neurologist about this, Cefaly, for my migraines and occipital neuralgia. I am currently trying steroid injections which are not helping me very much.
Patty, has anybody tried you on Indocin or other migraine medications? If not, then you may want to find another neurologist. Likewise, can you tolerate any of the tricyclic antidepressant drugs? They are commonly used in occipital neuralgia, though less effective in migraine.
Bellalarke, I'd like to read the more detailed article from Scientific American. So far three people have responded to my data call on neurostimulator outcomes, with input specific to Cefaly. One of them had no improvement of pain. One had improvement. And one had a major flare of breakthrough pain that proved very difficult to manage thereafter. I'm working on putting together all of the research sources I have so far, and hope to post an article in our Face Pain Info tab by the end of August.
My Mayo Clinic trained neuro recommended a Cefaly device which is a neuro stimulator you use at home. I got it yesterday so only have had a few sessions with it. So far it feels uncomfortable during treatment but immediately afterward extremely relaxing. Apparently with use the discomfort eases and/or disappears. It is approved by Health Canada for migraines. Works directly on Trigeminal system. My neuro thinks it's worth trying. A lot of her migraine and cluster headache patients have success with the Cefaly. Takes weeks or months to make a change. It is not a "cure" but designed to help reduce meds. A treatment to be used on regular basis. The Cefaly device is made in Belguim.
Scientific America had another much more detailed article about Transcranial magnetic stimulation last December which I posted on this forum. Will hunt for link.
Red, the March issue of Scientific American was titled The Brain Electric. I bought it while traveling and lost at some point but the article was fascinating, all about various kinds of electrical and magnetic stimulation now being used for things as various as Arthritis etc. and the huge wave of research and medicine going in that direction.
I recently moved from my small island home to a small city so situation overwhelm and so have not been checking in on the site and did not see your call about the Cefaly.
This is my third day and I’ve done seven treatments. I quite enjoy the mild electrical stimulation. My issue is a feeling of pressure but I’ve decided to use it as an opportunity to use as a meditation and not lable the sensations as pain but have a curiosity about them. When the session is over I feel just great. It is not triggering an episode for me. I’m willing to give it at least two months. Also today I did the treatment after a twenty minute meditation session to open me to approaching the pressure as simply sensation and not labelling as pain. If nothing, I figure it gives me something really concrete to work with in that regard.
Patty, the nerve blocks don’t work for my occipital neuralgia either, or scalp pain for that matter which is both sides now. I did have a Great Auricular Nerve block last week, it might have been a little bit effective for pain behind the ear, but not much.
With the Cefaly we’re hoping to quiet down the whole pain period.
Good luck.
A video here with a long discussion about stimulating the vagus nerve. Again, not particular to TN but to pain in general. Also sure as hell not alternative medicine! A certain knowledge base helps to follow but worth checking out the new horizons.