Can stress actually cause TN ? Or does stress aggrivate a pre-exisiting condition?
Hi Kay, many Dr's say otherwise but so many members here will tell you that their TN pain level increases with stress. It may be because stress increases BP aggravating the Trigeminal nerve. There is no known link I know of that stress causes TN/ATN but you never know..................
Cause = I don't think so. No known science link to that.
Aggravate = From my experience absolutely. Case in point. I serve on two non profit boards. Both are having some financial difficulties because with the economy, giving is down. There was a misunderstanding with the voting class of one board and they are arguing over what to do with 2500 dollars. To me, there should be no argument... however, there has been some petty, and then not so nice fighting going on. During one particular incident last week, I was having a really great day, but as I am the vice-chair and in the middle of this thing, I was in the middle of this mess.... my body was tensing. I was really, really angry at some of the underhanded stuff going on with a small amount of money, and my blood pressure was rising... and BOOM, pain.
At other times, when the pain is really, really bad and my BP is up, the pain increases.... if I can get my BP lowered (opiates and laying down will do that), the pain decreases.
I fully, fully believe that stress effects the pain and can cause flares. Doctors might not say so.... but when a patient is in the ER with 160/104 BP, whose normal BP is 99/69, there is an issue. When pain goes down and BP falls too. I also think it depends on the doctor you are talking too.... mine says there definitely appears to be a cause and effect with me.
Hi, Kay May — The first episode I endured came after a 3-day migraine. I was up for the first time since the on slought of the migraine, doing work in my home business. My husband and I were arguing and I was stressed to the breaking point. I had realized something that had never dawned on me prior and it was one of my worst fears. Then came the first stabbing pain in my right ear. About an hour or so later, it came again, x3. I liken it to the 2nd stage of labor as far as it being a 10 on the pain scale. Since diagnosis 3 months after this initial episode, when life is stressful, my nerve lets me know it is unmanageable. So I ask anyone involved in the current stress to please step back and let's talk about this another time. If it's only me involved with the stress (like working on insurance appeals, etc.) I take a break, walk on my elliptical or stretch, etc. If it's at night and I can't sleep due to worrying or fretting, I go into our main area of the house, play my favorite worship CD and pace the floors singing praise and worship. Soon perspective comes back into my mind and I sleep in peace…and usually wake up in peace. Self-care is so important with this disease…be good to yourself, better than at any time in your life, be good! It's not selfish, it's needful for productive day-to-day management of TN (in my opinion). :-) Blessings to you, Kay May!
From 16 years of research in literature, I'd agree with Jackie and Lisa. Stress is an irritant on existing trigeminal pain, but I've never seen evidence that stress is a cause of trigeminal pain, or any OTHER form of pain, for that matter.
There is a branch of psychosomatic medicine that asserts that certain forms of pain that can't be attributed to specific organic cause should be considered what is called "conversion disorder" or "hypochondriasis". But the evidence for that proposition is completely missing. Several ethical practitioners have been working for years to get these mythical disorders removed from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of the American Psychiatric Association, or otherwise combined with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, which they may resemble from a perspective of psychiatry.
Regards and best,
Red
Thank you all so much for your responses.
I kind of get upset when people simply say that my headaches are because I'm stressed. It's so hard to tell because of the major stressers in life for the last few years... I feel like there is nothing to really "compare" it to if that makes sense.
Also, I know I've had this conversation with a few people here before, but its hard to explain this to other people because I don't have anything "tangible" to show people about my pain... except when my face flushes and gets really hot to touch.
There are good days and bad days. Last night = bad night. Today= okay, but lots of "buzzing/tingling" in my face/ears/head.
I hope your day as continued with being okay, or even better :-) Just to follow up with my comments above, I have not ever thought that the stress of the moment caused the TN in my case. Nor has it ever been a thought regarding Migraines. But, when we are in a chronic state of stress I believe our bodies are depleted and compound that depletion upon each day, and it's a recipe for a breaking in our body…somewhere. My life was in chronic stress as a child and when I began my family fell into a mode of doing everything without really caring for myself. One thing that has been good about this disease is that it has taught me the importance of caring for myself and those around me. Our bodies, when respected, are amazing, marvelous machines able to heal and restore itself given the right care. I wish I'd known then what I know now! Blessings! LyndaS
Hi there ! I can definitely state that increased stress triggers my TN...the rise in BP is a cause... also, whenever I get sinus pressure, geez, or a sinus infection.....a guaranteed TN trigger....even a drop in the barometric pressure can trigger...when I don't get enough sleep, and start yawning...oh geez...not fun..I get a cramp like a charlie horse cramp in my jaw...
Thank you Red. I am reading this at the exact moment I need it. The dr. who testified against me used this explanation for my facial pain. It didn't matter that about 6+drs., including Dr. DeSalles at UCLA who treated me with great results, testified that both my TN and damaged shoulder were due to the ceiling fan falling on me. So today I am suppose to be served with papers that hold me liable for $52,000+ in court costs. Thank you dr. for adding to my stress plate (hear the sarcasm?) I needed to read your validation because I know what is true, and those around me know what is true, just 9 of the 12 jurors wanted to make their vacation so they took the easy way. blessings~~
Richard A. "Red" Lawhern said:
From 16 years of research in literature, I'd agree with Jackie and Lisa. Stress is an irritant on existing trigeminal pain, but I've never seen evidence that stress is a cause of trigeminal pain, or any OTHER form of pain, for that matter.
There is a branch of psychosomatic medicine that asserts that certain forms of pain that can't be attributed to specific organic cause should be considered what is called "conversion disorder" or "hypochondriasis". But the evidence for that proposition is completely missing. Several ethical practitioners have been working for years to get these mythical disorders removed from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of the American Psychiatric Association, or otherwise combined with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, which they may resemble from a perspective of psychiatry.
Regards and best,
Red
stress can Aggrivate TN - like it can aggrivate any other medical condition , i guess.
but it's not an excuse for doctors to hint that what we have is stress-caused.
and this is what i feel MANT doctors here, in my conutry does.
how much can a person claim - the despite he's looking OK - the pain ISS real ?
there are so many names today for unexplained medical situations that are cause be mental stress.
many doctors and alternative treatments today deal with the conenection of body and soul.
but i DO know - that it's because they can't really *see* the actual reason for the pain.. so they "go" with the field that the can treat..
the like to say that this dental problem is "set" on other mental problems the person had beforehand.. and it triggered these problems.
maybe it's true in SOME cases.. but it does wrong to the cases where the injury IS physical and could be fixed.. if found.
Nir, when next you see a medical practitioner, I wonder if it might do some good to have with you, a printout from a letter published to the TN Association knowledge base last summer, by their Medical Advisory Board. In that letter, Peter Janetta demolishes the silly notion that facial neurological pain can be caused by the patient's mental state or depression. Start with http://www.fpa-support.org, and then do some searches in their knowledge base search box.
Regards, Red
dear Richard,
thank you for your concerned each time... but i'm afraid doctors can't be educated here.
it sounds like i'm giving doctors in Israel a bad name.. or make it looks like a "third-world" conutry.
i belive the doctors here ARE educated in here.. but even the biggest names here in Israel... (i heard people in THIS forum also heard about them - Professor Sarav and BenOliel.
they wrote an international book on the subject :
http://www.amazon.com/Orofacial-Pain-Headache-Yair-Sharav/dp/0723434123
even they - (especialy proffessor Sarab - claimed my pain came mainly from mental state ).
in thier defense i can say two things :
1. maybe they KNOW and have experience that in our situation there is no MAGIC procedure.. and only the anti depressants can make a small (or bigger) relive. (at least in thier point of view)
2 . it's not that they say my pain is mental.. they first said it was "Neoropathic pain".. and some other big specialist this week (which i pain a fortune to) - said it's a combination of physical soft-tissue injury and mental stress/state.
the sad thing.. is if they say it more and more.. at a point i will give up.. and start belive it myself.. that the pain is imaginary (and i know it is not).
it's such a shame these doctors are so "well known" doctors.. and write very graphic article about ALL sorts of pains.. but in the end - all they can do is tell you you have some "vague" pain.
about the idea of going to doctors with an article - you are great - but i don't think it's a good idea... doctors won't love that i "teach" them of thier job.. or what to say.
i want to guess and hope that in 50 years (and less of course) people will know so much more of this subject and pain (in all fields) would be easly treatable .
i've spoken on the phone with MARSHALL DEVOR - which is an israeli scientist.. he is the head of some facial pain organization... didn't really got much info from him about what is the future in that field.
also - if you are intersted - there is abother israeli compant that's trying to develope a new drug for neuropathic pain... http://www.biolinerx.com/default.asp?PageID=16&ItemID=85
but again - until it will be public - it can take years and years to come.
I found this really interesting, Red. We have had several patients in at my work with conversion disorder and all the nurses were thinking what the heck is that - now I understand. We were all convinced that several of these people were experiencing some sort of psychosomatic pain (to which we have to take the view of treating them as they are experiencing pain - I suppose one can liken it to the sort of phantom pain that amputees experience, is it real as in they are actually having pain caused by the mind or an organic cause) and one of them (who has even been in the local media complaining with her mother) we think is actually attention seeking rather than experiencing pain. I didn't even realise it was in the DSM. Thanks for that explanation :)
Richard A. "Red" Lawhern said:
From 16 years of research in literature, I'd agree with Jackie and Lisa. Stress is an irritant on existing trigeminal pain, but I've never seen evidence that stress is a cause of trigeminal pain, or any OTHER form of pain, for that matter.
There is a branch of psychosomatic medicine that asserts that certain forms of pain that can't be attributed to specific organic cause should be considered what is called "conversion disorder" or "hypochondriasis". But the evidence for that proposition is completely missing. Several ethical practitioners have been working for years to get these mythical disorders removed from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of the American Psychiatric Association, or otherwise combined with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, which they may resemble from a perspective of psychiatry.
Regards and best,
Red
Stress can definately bring mine on worse to break through all the meds. I find when the kids are playing up it gets worse as I try not to flip out at them. I have no idea if I have compression or not. I think with any pain it will get worse with stress as the reserves you use to deal with it are interrupted by the stress of things.
Porcelina, if you're interested in a follow-up to my notes on conversion disorder, feel free to send me mail at ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■. I can send you articles by psychiatrists and psychologists that are remarkably critical of the whole silly notion of conversion disorder. The articles are copyrighted, so I can't reference full text in a public forum.
I'm not a psychologist, of course. I merely read literature. I have six to eight feet of bookshelf space devoted to the subject in my library, including some of the work of Thomas Szasz ("The Manufacture of Madness" is particularly good). From that background, my personal impression is that hypochondriasis is possibly best regarded and treated as a sub-variant within Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder. And it should not be diagnosed at all, unless the patient presents with behavioral markers for unreasonable anxiety or panic attacks associated with diffuse and ill-defined whole-body symptoms that have no referent in internal medicine.
My two Red cents, for the little they're worth.
Regards, Red
Porcelina - i'll be honest and say.. that thinking people are "attention seeking" instead of really bieng in pain - is a terrible thought.
can it really THAT hard to believe that one person does not go espesically to the ER - and he is REALLY in pain ?
i'll say more.. there are so many people with severe pain that should be hopitalized and helped.. but they don't go to the ER just sit at home and suffer greatly. does that mean they should not get help ?
i'm sure there ARE cases of attention seeking .. but going that road -one should be very causious.
it's like the saying .
Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer,
YES. Period! When the world throws 'life' a curve ball, the stress levels rise and then WHAM! Very well put Porcelina!! My pain is directly affected when my stress levels rise. It is not the only thing that causes those infernal flare ups, but it IS one that is usually BAD.
Porcelina said:
Stress can definately bring mine on worse to break through all the meds. I find when the kids are playing up it gets worse as I try not to flip out at them. I have no idea if I have compression or not. I think with any pain it will get worse with stress as the reserves you use to deal with it are interrupted by the stress of things.
I have been told both, and I have lived both. Mine started after an extreme period of stress, and now everytime stress is involves, it gets worse. I have no scientific proof of that but that's how mine started. I have read articles that say TN can be followed by stress.
It definitely causes my pain to flare up, Kay. I try to avoid stress whenever I can but it's not always possible.
Take care of yourself. :)
~ Vicki
Any chronic pain condition tends to introduce stress. Depression is also a natural co-morbid result of having your energy worn down by sleep disturbance and interruptions of work and daily life. On the whole, however, it may be important to confront medical practitioners who mistakenly assign the causes of TN to "stress", implying that the disorder will go away if one simply attains a better attitude through psychotherapy or behavior modification. This latter mistreatment can cause pain patients a lot more pain before they attain effective medical treatment.
Regards, Red