I found out that I have this and that it’s severe. My neuro is sending me to a neurosurgeon for a consult. Has anyone else been diagnosed with this? He feels like this is the cause of my TN. I am worried that I will have to have neck surgery :(. If u have, did u have the surgery and did it help any? How long were u down?
I remember seeing stenosis being discussed before so just enter into the search tab. I have wondered if my neuralgia is caused from my cervical stenosis, disc bulge and spondylosis. Mine is not severe though. Do they know why yours is so severe -- were you in an accident? You look too young for it to just be degenerative. Let us know what the neurosurgeon says.
Neuro should sort it out -- I have had 7+ whiplashes in cars --- last one was due to oral surgeon's office - whipped my neck and gave me TN
Chicken or egg?---funny MVD did not scare me as much as neck surgery would -- keep us posted!
I sent you a message, then realized you have been on here longer than 2 weeks --- which is when I recommended this site to another lady in owensboro ---- we went there memorial day weekend to see my BFF.
Kimberly in KC
I had to have a cervical fusion due to severe stenosis. During a follow up with neuro a couple months later I complained of throbbing pain on right side of my face, after a brain MRI I was told I have TN and it was not related to my fusion ?
Anterior Cervical Discectomy and Fusion
you can look it up on "thedoctorstv.com"
Newer procedure - there is a video there
Don't know if you are a candidate but it looks preferable to other method to me
hey Red by chance can you check about this study for me? I go see a surgeon on the 22nd. I have been researching but I haven't found any studies on TN and stenosis.
Might be of interest
Sada Teresa Ovalle et al , describe four cases of trigeminal neuralgia due to pathology of the cervical spine, including cervical arthritis and cervical stenosis, that were successfully treated with upper cervical spine nerve blocks
Sada Teresa Ovalle et al. Probable relationship between trigeminal neuralgia and cervical spine pathology. Case Reports. Rev. Soc. Esp. Dolor v.15 n.5 Narón (La Coruña) jun.-jul. 2008
Spondylosis (stenosis) is a common cause of "TN Pain" because of pressure on C1,2. You can read about it here:
http://www.dizziness-and-balance.com/disorders/central/migraine/occ...
Although technically its called "occipital Neuralgia" Its important to remember TN is not a specific disease but rather a description of a condition with multiple causes. Differential diagnoses looks at numerous causes for the pain. The key for any patient is Neuralgia That's the pain. The first word is the Nerve (Trigeminal) but there are other "words" such as "occipital" that broaden the description.
PLEASE don't back yourself into a box with too narrow of a description of your pain. Your neurosurgeon who has spent 20 plus years learning and practicing his craft (as opposed to Dr. Google reading about it on the internet) is looking at all reasons for your pain. Its well worth considering. In any event stenosis in that area can cause all manner of problems in addition to your neuralgia.
6 months ago I fell on my back after a hammock I was lying in fell from the base. I fractured my T2, T-3, but not any cervical vertebrae. I was just diagnosed with TN yesterday. I asked the neurologist if it was related to the accident and she said "no"...now I am wondering if it might be related. Any feedback?
Shrrie and Nonna: I ran a search on three terms at the US National Library of Medicine: trigeminal neuralgia stenosis. I got back 33 hits, and scan read most of them. None of the articles mentioned an association between spinal stenosis and trigeminal neuralgia. When "stenosis" came up, it was in association with the narrowing of an artery or passageway within the skull.
When the term "spinal" is added to the search, only two articles come up. For the terms "spinal fusion trigeminal neuralgia", there are three articles -- one of which is titled "Headache, cervical spondylosis, and anterior cervical fusion." and noted in the NLM database without an abstract. So I don't see a strong association in the medical literature between facial pain and either spondylitis/stenosis or disc fusion in the cervical spine. To get a more precise overview of this issue, you might need to talk with an orthopedic surgeon who does fusion procedures in people who have facial pain as well as spinal issues. That's going to be a tough combination to find, I think.
I would also suggest that among experts in chronic neurological face pain, occipital neuralgia and trigeminal neuralgia are generally not lumped together, though both are diagnosed and treated by pretty much the same kinds of neurological specialists. As ModSupport indicates, whether this distinction is helpful or not isn't always clear in medical literature (at least not in my reading of the literature). The types of medication administered for these two patterns of pain (one in the rear quadrant of the head, and the other in the face), tend to be the same. There are surgical procedures specific to "decompression" of the greater or lesser occipital nerve in the cervical spine, but I've never seen large-sample outcomes studies for these procedures.
Sorry, but I think this issue is presently within a zone of ambiguity in medical practice. I haven't seen medical evidence to demonstrate an association between spinal fusion surgery and chronic facial pain. It may be out there, but I haven't seen it.
FYI: although I am qualified as a technical analyst and information miner, and have read medical literature on chronic face pain for 19 years, I am not a licensed physician.
regards, Red
The correct search term BTW is "Cervical stenosis with myelopathy" Secondary search terms would be "Cervical stenosis symptoms with radiculopathy" Tertiary would be "Cervical Spondylosis"l It has nothing to do with blood vessels in this instance. That's an entirely DIFFERENT kind of stenosis.
It won't be too hard to find a surgeon to deal with it. shrrie is seeing one on the 22. The difficulties from her Cervical stenosis far outweigh facial pain issues at this point. Cervical stenosis is a progressive condition in which approximately 75% of patients will have stepwise deterioration in their function with stable periods in between the episodes of deterioration. Twenty percent will have slow steady deterioration and another 5% will have rapid deterioration. Generalized inflammation in the area can cause huge issues including "trigger" for facial pain. While shrrie may or may not have "TN" from this stenosis or Nonna may not have her new TN symptoms directly from her fractures there no such thing as coincidence in the practice of medicine. Doctors treat what they see and the most significant issues first. Until the steonis issues are cleared up beyond some pain management by medication is the most likely path her doctors will follow in regards to the "TN"
Thanks Red
I know if it is a cause it is a rare cause but then rare conditions and complications seem more the norm with me. I am seeing a neurosurgeon that does the surgery that would be needed and did 4 on my husband but as you said he is not trained in treating facial or cranial pain conditions. We will see though and I'll report back what I learn. I apperciate your work and your research.
June
A new article was just posted on the TN basics tab that may be of interest:
Thank you ModSupport I think I'm on to something. I have been digging deep I book marked it I go to see the surgeon in the morning I know for sure I'm gona have them look as close as they can C1- C2 my whole back of my head goes numb and it's doing it more and more. I know I have the stenosis. I need to talk to him about it even if I am wrong but I don't usually miss diagnosis myself. And the fact that I have Hypophosphatemia. It just makes sense to me to many dots connect. The next question is what if anything can and do we do for it. But I think it could be a cause that has been over looked. We will see. I know like the article says we don't all fit the box and Ihave never fit in a box yet. LOL I have soe many rare conditions that the rarer it is the more I'm looking at it now days. If I am right it will also help me get the genetic testing I've been asking for.
Hi Shrrie,
I was wondering if you had any update on your situation, I would love to hear.
Shrrie said:
Thank you ModSupport I think I'm on to something. I have been digging deep I book marked it I go to see the surgeon in the morning I know for sure I'm gona have them look as close as they can C1- C2 my whole back of my head goes numb and it's doing it more and more. I know I have the stenosis. I need to talk to him about it even if I am wrong but I don't usually miss diagnosis myself. And the fact that I have Hypophosphatemia. It just makes sense to me to many dots connect. The next question is what if anything can and do we do for it. But I think it could be a cause that has been over looked. We will see. I know like the article says we don't all fit the box and Ihave never fit in a box yet. LOL I have soe many rare conditions that the rarer it is the more I'm looking at it now days. If I am right it will also help me get the genetic testing I've been asking for.
Almost four years ago, I had C5-C7 fused. I was out of commission for 2 months following a procedure where they injected dye into my spinal column to see where they needed to operate. First, the dye made me feel pretty sick. Second, the hole where they injected the dye didn't clot and I got a spinal headache when standing. I went back to the hospital immediately where they did a blood patch -- they took blood out of my arms and injected it back into my spine so that it would clot and heal. Once I recovered from that, my surgeon decided I needed a double discectomy and fusion. I was out of commission for 2 more months. I couldn't ride in a car except to go to my doctor appointments. I didn't sleep in a bed for 6 weeks following surgery; I slept in a recliner. I was on Percocet for a year and a half. I haven't really been pain-free for over 4 years now, although the surgery resolved the first issue. It just seems like the issues never end.
Last year, I started with TN symptoms, but at first I thought I had a toothache and needed a root canal. The pain never completely went away, but for some reason Imitrex for migraines did the trick. But I took it too frequently, and my neurologist said it was bad for my heart, so I started getting Botox injections for migraine, which help. But this past summer, the pain started shooting from my tooth to my eye, and, after trying anti-convulsants, I finally went to a neurosurgeon specializing in TN and got a firm TN diagnosis. Now awaiting an MRI and hopefully gamma knife surgery.
I read tonight on this forum about occipital TN -- involves C1 and C2. Read up on that -- it might be relative to your situation.
Good luck!
From my understanding Dr Kenneth Casey out of Michigan has done some work with cervocogenic causes. I’m going to try to get a consult.