Hi! I am new to this site (today). I am curious if anyone here has had any upper shoulder problems (mainly spasms) seemingly related to TN or specifically Atypical TN. I went to physical therapy for almost a year for this problem and the TN to try something other than just meds (it didn’t work by the way) My phys. therapist told me that the upper trapezius muscle is one of the only muscles which receives its nerve impulses from a cranial nerve, specifically the 5th cranial nerve (trigeminal nerve).
On other weird thing… Does anyone have any weird numbness like feelings around their eye? My right eye (right side is affected by TN) often feels numb but when I touch it I can still feel it. It sometimes disturbs my vision a little. Just in case it could be med related I take: trileptal, lamictal, clonazepam, lexapro (for depression) and oxycontin.
Any thoughts, similar experiences you have would be great to hear. I sometimes feel like I am a giant paranoia machine… if I am not living in fear of being in pain I am worrying about my face (eye, ear, cheek feeling strange).
Thanks for any thoughts!!!
Best. Johanna (Jo)
Now that you mention it, I’ve noticed my left shoulder twitching the past couple of nights as I was trying to get to sleep. I’ve not noticed it during the day. I’ve also noticed some numbness around my left eye, but I too can still feel touch. I’ve also noticed some numbness on the left side of my throat and along my jaw.
Jo,
You are not alone and you are not crazy!! I have atypical bilateral TN. I notice that when my shoulders are tighter that TN pain is more sensitive or stronger. It really makes sense in my mind if everything is all connected and one muscle is tight, wouldnt that make whatever else is connected to it at all hypersensitive?
As for the feeling around the eye, my guess is that it is related to TN. There are all different types of pain and now maybe your body is recognizing another type. ugh!!
Good luck and keep us posted!
Hi Johanna,
Most of us do fear the pain. The strange sensations are normal also. I don’t have numbness but all kinds of other sensations. My TN is worse if I have a neck problem but I don’t have any shoulder problems. I didn’t realize that the shoulder muscles received impulses from the TN nerve.
Liz
the trapezius muscles are innervated by the following nerves:
the accessory nerve (motor)
the 3rd and 4th cervical nerves (sensory)
trapezius muscles are not mediated by the trigeminal nerves. they receive pain and sensation impulses from cervical nerves only.
any sensation in the face and top part of scalp, with the exception of the angle of the jaw, is mediated by the trigeminal nerves. the angle of the jaw is mediated by the greater auricular nerve.
medications can cause vision change. eye pain warrants a medical consult.
the researcher
In the book I am reading on TMJ, Robert Uppgaard [DDS], refers to the trapezius as being a potential source of trigger points which activate referred pain to the head, causing “tension headaches and pain behind the ear and back and side of the neck and up to the temple…sometimes pain in the lower back teeth and even outer ear”. He says that sleeping on a thick firm pillow makes this muscle very vulnerable.
the researcher said:
the trapezius muscles are innervated by the following nerves:
the accessory nerve (motor)
the 3rd and 4th cervical nerves (sensory)
trapezius muscles are not mediated by the trigeminal nerves. they receive pain and sensation impulses from cervical nerves only.
any sensation in the face and top part of scalp, with the exception of the angle of the jaw, is mediated by the trigeminal nerves. the angle of the jaw is mediated by the greater auricular nerve.
medications can cause vision change. eye pain warrants a medical consult.
the researcher
Hi Johanna, I too suffer with weird sensations around my eye, I have had a MVD on that side and the optician told me it is the nerves healing…not convinced though.
Kirsti
Thank you for the replies and clarification. I will do some research on the shoulder issue and how it might relate to facial pain if at all. All I know is that when my shoulder is aggravated and in pain my facial pain seems to get worse. Oh well. Thanks for the suggestion about pillows. I do clench my jaw and grind my teeth quite a bit (in general a tense person) so perhaps that is adding to my facial pain in an altogether different physiological manner.
Johanna, I also do teeth clenching and grinding, have shoulder stiffness and pain in my arm and am working through a self-help programme for TMJ. The things I have found useful are;- not sleeping on my face anymore, jaw, neck & shoulder exercises, posture awareness and jaw relaxation whenever possible:- i.e. lips closed ,lower jaw relaxed, tongue on the roof of the mouth away from the teeth. My symptoms have improved.
Johanna Smith said:
Thank you for the replies and clarification. I will do some research on the shoulder issue and how it might relate to facial pain if at all. All I know is that when my shoulder is aggravated and in pain my facial pain seems to get worse. Oh well. Thanks for the suggestion about pillows. I do clench my jaw and grind my teeth quite a bit (in general a tense person) so perhaps that is adding to my facial pain in an altogether different physiological manner.
Pat-
Thanks! Could you message me some of the exercises you do. Prior to being diagnosed with TN I was diagnosed with TMJ. I have had a mouth guard, done chiropractic work, acupuncture and a lot more to no avail. I do try to do the jaw relaxation exercise you mentioned but I have trouble doing it with my mouth closed. Thanks for your help! Jo
Pat Gascoigne said:
Johanna, I also do teeth clenching and grinding, have shoulder stiffness and pain in my arm and am working through a self-help programme for TMJ. The things I have found useful are;- not sleeping on my face anymore, jaw, neck & shoulder exercises, posture awareness and jaw relaxation whenever possible:- i.e. lips closed ,lower jaw relaxed, tongue on the roof of the mouth away from the teeth. My symptoms have improved.
Johanna Smith said:Thank you for the replies and clarification. I will do some research on the shoulder issue and how it might relate to facial pain if at all. All I know is that when my shoulder is aggravated and in pain my facial pain seems to get worse. Oh well. Thanks for the suggestion about pillows. I do clench my jaw and grind my teeth quite a bit (in general a tense person) so perhaps that is adding to my facial pain in an altogether different physiological manner.
I also have rheumatoid arthritis and a previous injury to my shoulder. I have noticed that when I get an upper body massage focusing on my neck and shoulders that my tn pain is better. Today was the second day I tried this, so not exactly proof of causation but so far a correlation.
Johanna Smith said:
Pat-
Thanks! Could you message me some of the exercises you do. Prior to being diagnosed with TN I was diagnosed with TMJ. I have had a mouth guard, done chiropractic work, acupuncture and a lot more to no avail. I do try to do the jaw relaxation exercise you mentioned but I have trouble doing it with my mouth closed. Thanks for your help! JoPat Gascoigne said:
Johanna, I also do teeth clenching and grinding, have shoulder stiffness and pain in my arm and am working through a self-help programme for TMJ. The things I have found useful are;- not sleeping on my face anymore, jaw, neck & shoulder exercises, posture awareness and jaw relaxation whenever possible:- i.e. lips closed ,lower jaw relaxed, tongue on the roof of the mouth away from the teeth. My symptoms have improved.
Johanna Smith said:Thank you for the replies and clarification. I will do some research on the shoulder issue and how it might relate to facial pain if at all. All I know is that when my shoulder is aggravated and in pain my facial pain seems to get worse. Oh well. Thanks for the suggestion about pillows. I do clench my jaw and grind my teeth quite a bit (in general a tense person) so perhaps that is adding to my facial pain in an altogether different physiological manner.
The jaw relaxation exercise is:- teeth slightly apart, lips closed and top third of the tongue resting softly on the roof of the mouth as if you were about to make a clucking sound.
Johanna Smith said:
Pat-
Thanks! Could you message me some of the exercises you do. Prior to being diagnosed with TN I was diagnosed with TMJ. I have had a mouth guard, done chiropractic work, acupuncture and a lot more to no avail. I do try to do the jaw relaxation exercise you mentioned but I have trouble doing it with my mouth closed. Thanks for your help! Jo
Pat Gascoigne said:Johanna, I also do teeth clenching and grinding, have shoulder stiffness and pain in my arm and am working through a self-help programme for TMJ. The things I have found useful are;- not sleeping on my face anymore, jaw, neck & shoulder exercises, posture awareness and jaw relaxation whenever possible:- i.e. lips closed ,lower jaw relaxed, tongue on the roof of the mouth away from the teeth. My symptoms have improved.
Johanna Smith said:Thank you for the replies and clarification. I will do some research on the shoulder issue and how it might relate to facial pain if at all. All I know is that when my shoulder is aggravated and in pain my facial pain seems to get worse. Oh well. Thanks for the suggestion about pillows. I do clench my jaw and grind my teeth quite a bit (in general a tense person) so perhaps that is adding to my facial pain in an altogether different physiological manner.
Thanks Pat!
Pat Gascoigne said:
The jaw relaxation exercise is:- teeth slightly apart, lips closed and top third of the tongue resting softly on the roof of the mouth as if you were about to make a clucking sound.
Johanna Smith said:Pat-
Thanks! Could you message me some of the exercises you do. Prior to being diagnosed with TN I was diagnosed with TMJ. I have had a mouth guard, done chiropractic work, acupuncture and a lot more to no avail. I do try to do the jaw relaxation exercise you mentioned but I have trouble doing it with my mouth closed. Thanks for your help! Jo
Pat Gascoigne said:Johanna, I also do teeth clenching and grinding, have shoulder stiffness and pain in my arm and am working through a self-help programme for TMJ. The things I have found useful are;- not sleeping on my face anymore, jaw, neck & shoulder exercises, posture awareness and jaw relaxation whenever possible:- i.e. lips closed ,lower jaw relaxed, tongue on the roof of the mouth away from the teeth. My symptoms have improved.
Johanna Smith said:Thank you for the replies and clarification. I will do some research on the shoulder issue and how it might relate to facial pain if at all. All I know is that when my shoulder is aggravated and in pain my facial pain seems to get worse. Oh well. Thanks for the suggestion about pillows. I do clench my jaw and grind my teeth quite a bit (in general a tense person) so perhaps that is adding to my facial pain in an altogether different physiological manner.