Type 2 atypical tetth hurting inside of ny burning



Eileen said:

Ronald I am so happy for you...you have your life back now.How long ago did you have the nerve block procedure? What is it called? Where are you based? Did you have ATN or TN? Thanks!
Eileen, I have ATN. The nerve block is called "Trigeminal Nerve Block".
It seems the terminology varies with the clinic, hospital or medical practice so it is best to start a discussion for clarity. I have had SPG nerve blocks at Cedars-Sinai Pain Center in Los Angeles twice under general anesthesia with no success but left after two hours because I was an out- patient. My trigeminal nerve block was done four years later in the doctors office on 29 October 2015 as an out-patient ( I left two hours later).
My pain relief has already worn off but the doctor had already explained that they typically concentrate on finding the correct location of the three trigeminal nerve branches using a low dose injection then confirm patient reported pain relief before a second nerve block because the nerve block effects tend to accumulate. They require the patient to wait two weeks and report pain level changes before they will schedule the second stronger nerve block. In addition, the anesthesiologist gave me a low dose general anesthetic because the doctor usually wakes the patient after the needle tip is through the cheek and at the trigeminal nerve. He then moves the needle tip and applies a low voltage stimulation and asks the patient if this stimulation is felt where pain occurs. When the low level stimulation matches the patient reported location then the patient is put back to sleep to complete the procedure. See this video òf the technique done by Mayfield Clinic at www.youtube.com/watch?V=NioxbJ7OyKl and also available at www.mayfieldclinic.com under the title of Percutaneous Procedures for Trigeminal Neuralgia. As you will soon notice on YouTube there are many other doctor videos on percutaneous procedures or needle through the cheek to the nerve. These procedures can vary from a simple nerve block injection of lidocaine or marcaine that causes no nerve damage to rhizotomy which is nerve destruction using various techniques such glycerol injection, RF thermal heat ablation, Balloon comression, etc. The procedures are typically done with nerve block first then successively more nerve destructive procedures as needed to reduce pain with minimum loss of nerve functions that could cause loss of facial muscle control. The goal is to trade pain for the minimal numbness. Hope this helps.
By the way, my doctors at Neurological Associates of West LA ( www.naowla.com ) are or have been resident doctors at UCLA Neurological Institute. We are also discussing minimally invasive or percutaneous pulsed RF therapy that does not cause nerve damage like continuous RF rhizotomy where the RF is left on to heat the needle and burn the nerve ( called RF THERMAL rhizotomy by most doctors ). As another non-destructive option they also offer ketamine infusion. However, unlike most ketamine infusions which require in-patient or hospitalization for three or more days they do a lower dose out-patient IV in their office and send you home with someone to watch because bad dreams often occur. Then they do another treatment for the next two days and you spend the night at home each night. Sometimes, the two hour in office IV procedure is done at a surgical center depending on the availability of the anesthesiologist. These doctors are claiming much better, longer lasting results using their initial low dose ketamine infusion then titrating up depending on patient response rather than the typical procedure of very high dose every day. It is good to see doctors who talk about their successes with other TN patients.

RonaldS Thank you so much for your quick and detailed reply! It is much appreciated! I have ATN and live in Oxford UK.I have printed out your reply to reread at length today.I am awaiting a neurologists appointment and I need to see him armed with all the knowledge I can collect.Let me know how you are coming along .

I have had burning in my mouth, too! Kept thinking I had thrush and was using Nystatin to treat it. It helps, but it never completely goes away. I've NEVER had this issue until my TN got really bad!

Jennifer Muir said:

It first started with severe acid like burning inside of my mouth. Had one Dr tell me I had a condition called burning mouth syndrom. New Dr says that's bs she said nerve damage causes burning.

Wow ... That's how I describe the pain in my eye -- like it's in a vise or something!

catwoman said:

As I write this their is a pair of pliers clamped onto my top front tooth trying to snap it in two while I would swear that I've cut the side of my tongue although I know I haven't. Soooo not pleasant.

I am an ATN who mostly has aching and crushing. I haven't had a lot of burning, but I have had a ton of tooth pain, at least 2-6 teeth always feel like they are in ice. I am a week past my 1 year anniversary, it took me 4 months to get diagnosed and I am still looking for a good dose of meds. Nortryptiline has been the best thing for me, everything else either did nothing, or made me too sick on side effects. the not sleeping was the worst. I have not fully researched surgery options yet. I quit my job and moved back in with my parents and I am looking for a doctor in my new area, it takes forever to get in with specialist. I wish you luck with the MRA, hope you get some relief!

Jennifer, I’m new to this forum. I totally understand the burning and aching in my mouth and teeth. Do you feel throbbing as well?

Sleepless yes one tooth in particular throbs almost 24/7 .is that how you are? What is your burning like?

All the teeth on my right side burn starting about midday. After good sleep I have the least amount of pain but it increases as the day goes on. My first symptom was the right side of my tongue burning as if I had burned it with something hot. Soon the roof of my mouth started burning as well. The throbbing is my worse problem as it also in the right side of my face…ESP around my temple and eye. It is a viousious circle…being hard to go to sleep and being worse if I don’t get enough sleep. I have found that it helps to limit my activities in the evening and lay on the sofa watching tv at least two hours before bedtime.

Jennifer,

When I saw that you posted that you have one tooth that throbs 24/7, I had to jump in. So do I. It is one of the teeth that was actually numb after my wisdom teeth were removed over 30 years ago. As the feeling has slowly returned and I have some of the feeling....well, pain now, I have this one tooth that is especially troublesome. I even went into the dentist to have a root canal done, only to be told that it had already had a root canal.

For me, it's all of my teeth on my right side and it gets worse at night especially when I lay down. Now I am starting to notice that the teeth on my left side hurt too. But that one tooth is never ending....

My tongue began burning this summer. I thought it was a case of thrush caused by a high dose of prednisone that I was taking for pain caused by a herniated disk. I'm beginning to think that the burning tongue, the disk degeneration of the upper cervical disks, the aching tooth, and the TN are all related!

Sleepless said:

All the teeth on my right side burn starting about midday. After good sleep I have the least amount of pain but it increases as the day goes on. My first symptom was the right side of my tongue burning as if I had burned it with something hot. Soon the roof of my mouth started burning as well. The throbbing is my worse problem as it also in the right side of my face....ESP around my temple and eye. It is a viousious circle......being hard to go to sleep and being worse if I don't get enough sleep. I have found that it helps to limit my activities in the evening and lay on the sofa watching tv at least two hours before bedtime.

The burning tounge is def from the tn. My Dr said nerve damage causes burning. My burning is not as bad but I usually always still have the sensation


The tongue burning sure is from the TN. I have pain on the right side of my tongue that feels like an open sore. I have shooting electrical pains through my tongue and I also have symptoms "Burning mouth syndrome" sometimes. I also have symptoms of Glossopharyngeal Neuralgia that involves pain in my tonsil and down my throat. This is the best diagram that I have found that shows the nerve distribution inside the mouth and throat.

1 Like

You are on to something with your thinking for sure. I have a bulging disk at C5 C6. I had to have physio for that and it ended up helping all of my facial pain. I have pain on my face but also on the back of my head, my neck and beyond. Do some research here and elsewhere into cranial therapy and NUCCA. Physio and acupuncture for my neck has helped me tremendously. Others use chiros or osteopathy. Be careful who you choose to do treatment though if you do look around...do your research first.

There was a lengthy discussion about this a few weeks ago:

http://www.livingwithtn.org/forum/topics/is-fpa-tn-research-barking-up-the-wrong-tree



CindyLou said:

My tongue began burning this summer. I thought it was a case of thrush caused by a high dose of prednisone that I was taking for pain caused by a herniated disk. I'm beginning to think that the burning tongue, the disk degeneration of the upper cervical disks, the aching tooth, and the TN are all related!

Sleepless said:

All the teeth on my right side burn starting about midday. After good sleep I have the least amount of pain but it increases as the day goes on. My first symptom was the right side of my tongue burning as if I had burned it with something hot. Soon the roof of my mouth started burning as well. The throbbing is my worse problem as it also in the right side of my face....ESP around my temple and eye. It is a viousious circle......being hard to go to sleep and being worse if I don't get enough sleep. I have found that it helps to limit my activities in the evening and lay on the sofa watching tv at least two hours before bedtime.

As a therapist,

I had not considered direct involvement of the lower cervical spine, only the upper cervical spine in conjunction with facial pain and headaches, but between justjane and modsupport, guess you can learn something new everyday, great.

Just Jane I had a Dr for about 3 months that treated for “burning mouth syndrome” and said my teeth pain would “just go away” since nothing on xray showed up. New drs were like that is bull crap you do not have BMS that its in older people ( I’m 28) tho I’m sure there are pdole my age that truly do have nothing is impossible… But were like your burning is from nerve damage trigeminal neuralgia. When it first started it literally felt like acid. Its so sad how in trained the medical field is. I even went to the emergency room and they were pretty much dumb founded and put me on steroids…this was obviously before I knew my diagnosis

Cathy, it sounds like we have similar pain situations. However, my pain began in 1998 with only the constant eye pain, but it's always been on both sides and would only go into my lower jaw and finally my upper teeth when it was at its worst. As horrible as that was and with as many mis-diagnoses I had as a result, I'm feeling pretty lucky that the constant pain didn't start in my teeth. At least I didn't have unnecessary dental work as a result of the TN2.

By 2012, I had the eye pain in very manageable condition through opioids (they work for the eyes but NOT for the teeth I've found), and other meds such as Gabapentin and Cymbalta. My best resource though was an amazing PT who helped with both the actual mechanical issues in my body (your nerves are "stuck" at points and a good CS therapist or PT can help get that myelin flowing again), diet changes (staying away from Gluten, dairy, & processed foods as much as possible), and gentle but important strengthening exercises for my core.

Then in Sept. of 2014, I woke up one day with chronic teeth pain on both sides.

I couldn't handle the daily, constant, chronic pain again so I went to a neurologist here (Alaska) who did an MRA in April and finally diagnosed me with TN, though because the medical community is still dubious that type 2 exists its only a TN diagnosis. As a result of the MRA, they found a compression on the right side, and veins and arteries "passing too close" on the left side. However, because my pain was bilateral, I had a very hard time getting any neurosurgeon to even consider the MVD procedure. Finally I went to Mayo and though he was not very enthusiastic about doing it or that we would get good results, I did get the neurosurgeon there to try the surgery after he looked at the scan again and really saw how "sandwiched" my TN nerve was between the veins and arteries on the right side.

That was 5 weeks ago. I am still having some tooth pain on that side but it is greatly diminished. In the past, it was always the right side that hurt more but now it's the left by a long shot. It will take months for me to really get an idea of how well the MVD worked but I'm glad I tried it. As it turned out there was an artery "coiled around" my trigeminal nerve but they couldn't see that exactly o the scan. It makes me wonder what's happening with my left side that they can't see.

I guess my message is this: The medical community doesn't like to work on things they can't solve and TN is loaded with those issues, especially TN2, especially with bilateral pain. So don't be afraid to be your own advocate. Bring a friend to important appointments so they can give you an objective opinion of how you were treated and bring hard questions so the neurosurgeon knows you're educated about your condition.

As far as it being worse at night, mine is too. I think it's just a result of being tired of carrying the pain around all day. I know it causes me to do weird things with my tongue and jaw position and by 5-6pm, my body's just too tired so the pain wins.

~Christy
Cathy in MD said:

I get tooth pain a lot, and it is almost always worse at night. I have even gone to the dentist insisting that I needed a root canal only to learn that I had already had one. I have one particular tooth that gives me a fit! For the most part, my tooth pain has been on my lower right side but lately I have noticed that it is also starting to appear on my other side, both top and bottom, which scares me. I use a lidocaine rinse (prescription needed) or even anbesol.

Unfortunately, I get all the other pain associated with TN2 but the tooth pain is a part of it for me as well.

Cathy In MD

I have similar pain: aching, throbbing, stinging, burning along mandibular gums and tongue on left side. Mine started with what seemed to be pain in a tooth that was already crowned. General dentist did a root canal. After return visits to the dentist and several months of continued pain, I saw a specialist at LSU School of Dentistry because I thought I had Burning Mouth Syndrome. He sent me to an endodontist who performed a second root canal on the same tooth. Still had terrible pain. Returned to him 2x, no answer for continued pain. I then saw a neurologist at Tulane University Med Ctr (I live in suburb of New Orleans). The guy actually told me when he first sat down that he had just gotten in at 4 am on an international flight and was exhausted. Then when I tried to ask a question I had after researching this condition on the Internet, he called me a "Googly-patient"! (his term for someone who tries to advocate for themselves, I suppose.) I was so distraught and insulted, I cried all the way home and didn't proceed to have any of the tests he had ordered. Then my PCP referred me to a second neurologist. That doc put me on lots of meds (gabapentin, Oxtellar, neurontin, Lyrica and others) all to no avail but with side effects that were awful. I was already taking Lamictal for chronic depression/anxiety. After MRI and lots of blood work to monitor the dosages of the meds, this neuro sent me to an oral surgeon. OS felt the offending tooth was cracked, so it was extracted. Afterward he assured me that it was indeed cracked and abscessed. I asked for the tooth, which he was reluctant to give me, and can find no evidence of a crack in it even using a jeweler's loop. I gave up on going back to the 2nd neuro after this because all he was doing was prescribing different meds, that I WAS SUGGESTING after reading posts on the site!. At this point, I have no confidence that he can help me. Now I am doing more research to try to find a neuro that has a LOT of experience with TN no matter when I have to travel. I am currently using xanax to relax enough to fall asleep every night and when I have an anxiety attack because the pain is so bad that I just sob and the panic makes the pain worse. I can't imagine that I will have to go on enduring this indefinitely. I would say that this has impacted my quality of life, but as things stand now, I don't feel like I have a life.Like others have described, my pain is minimal upon waking but progresses during the day. Evenings and night are the worst. And finally, the pain is CONSTANT. It started on 12/25/12 so I just passed the 3 year mark. If anyone has info on a proven specialist in the New Orleans area, I would appreciate the info. However, as others have expressed here, so many docs don't have a clue about this disease. I am struggling to actively research this and be my own advocate because most days I am in so much pain and so depressed, I can't make myself think about it without crying. I can't believe that as a person who is major depressive with chronic anxiety now has to deal with something called the S disease. Any input/feedback is appreciated. My heart goes out to all of you other sufferers. NO ONE can know what this feels like unless they've had it.

Suzy q do you still have pain as bad in the spot where the tooth was extracted? Did getting it extracted help at all?



Jennifer Muir said:

Suzy q do you still have pain as bad in the spot where the tooth was extracted? Did getting it extracted help at all?



SuzyQ said: There is still a lot of burning at the point of extraction, but I no longer feel some of the aching pain in that spot. I suspect the 2nd root canal was not completely successful because I could still feel pain when I put pressure on that particular tooth. The endo who performed the 2nd root canal implied that the first dentist might have drilled a little off track, which is why I agreed to the 2nd root canal, hoping to save the tooth.. What ultimately made me go ahead with the extraction was that I could still feel pain after the 2nd root canal when pressure was applied.and the OS suspected the tooth was cracked. I felt that I didn't have anything to lose but the pain at that point... As for the burning pain, it starts at the joint where mandible and maxilla hinge and goes along the inside gum on that side. I sometimes feel a sort of tingling toward the front of my mouth in a tooth on the UPPER side, which makes me cringe to think it might be spreading. I should add that I did only once feel the electric shock sensation described at TN1 on the outer side of my cheek. There were only about 4 shocks that lasted only a second or two. None of those since.



Jennifer Muir said:

Suzy q do you still have pain as bad in the spot where the tooth was extracted? Did getting it extracted help at all?